Originally Posted By leemac <<So your point is 'round rafts are the only way.' I say 'poppycock' >> And they are the only way. But power to you - you know how to do it differently then I suggest you lobby Itamin or O.D. Hopkins as they have been trying for years to take raft rides to another level. AA attractions can only work if you can 100% control the ride conveyance and the environment. You can't do that on a river raft ride.
Originally Posted By leemac <<And finally, Big Thunder Mountain is filled with AA animals, and the train travels faster than the rafts. How do you explain those?>> If you actually read my post in #77 I said it has nothing to do with the speed of the rafts. It is about the field of vision for every guest.
Originally Posted By leemac <<The point is, Disney could have made a leap in what a 'theme park river raft' ride is. And they didn't. They instead, took an off-the-shelf 'river rafting ride' and added some environmental theme-ing.>> There is no leap to make. Adding drops for the first time is the only innovation that has happened in raft technology. Disney rarely design ride conveyances - they either buy off-the-shelf or order to spec.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <<And finally, Big Thunder Mountain is filled with AA animals, and the train travels faster than the rafts. How do you explain those?>> If you actually read my post in #77 I said it has nothing to do with the speed of the rafts. It is about the field of vision for every guest.> Sorry, I didn't see it initially. I was drafting my letter to Intamin regarding a new river raft ride for theme parks.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <Disney rarely design ride conveyances - they either buy off-the-shelf or order to spec.> Thanks for the education, leemac. And there's a difference between buying an off-the-shelf ride (Aerosmith's Rock 'n Roller Coaster), and using off-the-shelf technology (Matterhorn Bobsleds) All I'm suggesting here is that 'Grizzly River Rapids' as it is, is an 'okay' ride. Where it could have been 'outstanding' with the addition of AA technology, or different rafts, or something to make it unique. Your answer is 'It can't be done' because of ride conveyances and environments and so forth. Written like a true pencil boy.
Originally Posted By danyoung >AA attractions can only work if you can 100% control the ride conveyance and the environment. You can't do that on a river raft ride.< I don't know about that. If Splash Mountain had round rafts that were slowly spinning, there would still be plenty to see during your ride. I would have liked to see that level of theming and AA involvement in Grizzly. Anything less was disappointing to me.
Originally Posted By dshyates I just don't buy the round raft=no sight lines. If that were the case then why have the fake rafters gear beside the trough. So we can see backpacks, but not a raccoon getting into the backpack or a full sized deer standing beside the backpack. We can see the cave paintings, but we wouldn't be able to see a full sized bear? How about 3 bears tearing the backpacks up, one with a backpack stuck on his head. Very Jungle Cruise-esque. So I will reiterate, not buying it. They simply cheaped out.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA ^^^hey, man, don't argue here dshyates. It is 'simply the way it is.'
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Anyone thinking about digging into the thread history to find the argument about AAs on 'Grizzly River' No need -- this what it was like.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I don't know about that. If Splash Mountain had round rafts that were slowly spinning, there would still be plenty to see during your ride.>> Imagine you are a kid on the ride - you need to be able to see over the person directly opposite you to see the show scenes and deal with a rotation (however gentle). This means building them above the level of the raft's headrests - which destroys any sense of immersiveness as you can't put the shows scenes down at your level - Splash works as you sit down in the ride conveyance and the show scenes are immediately there.
Originally Posted By SoThisIsLove I think it would be very cool to NOT see everything perfectly on the ride. It would be delightful to have each ride be unique, ex: Did you see that racoon?!?! No, I didn't! Well, maybe you'll see it next time... It doesn't have to be perfectly arranged like a POTC or IASW. Have some spontaneity (provided by spinning rafts and a quick current) and bring some wonder into the ride.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I think it would be very cool to NOT see everything perfectly on the ride. >> The problem is how do you tell a story? The only alternative is to just have basic AAs like Big Thunder - what is unique about that? You just end up with AAs for AAs sake. You can always argue that the DCA team should have never added a raft ride to the opening menu if they couldn't do something unique to it.
Originally Posted By SoThisIsLove <<The problem is how do you tell a story?>> And that's the million dollar question, isn't it? You're right there...I'm no Imagineer, so yeah, I guess my thoughts would be AAs just for AAs sake. Oh, Lee, I'm so easily pleased, I'm just delighted to be on the ride. Maybe the next generation will be able to solve this dilemma, if need be. Meanwhile, I'll be happy with the goat on BTRR. And if they can do an AA of Kurt Russell as a Grizzly Guide or something, that will work just swell. xoxo
Originally Posted By dshyates Maybe have a mother bear with 2 cubs at the rafter's camp, one with a backpack stuck on his head. More vignette, than all encompassing story. Like the Jungle cruise. I guess we wouldn't understand the guys on the pole with the rhino without the witty exposition of the skipper.
Originally Posted By leemac <<More vignette, than all encompassing story.>> All possible - ultimately the biggest problem is that Grizzly Peak has a very complex backstory which isn't properly communicated anywhere in Golden State. In fact every "land" in DCA has a significant backstory (albeit with open narratives) but that just isn't communicated to guests in any real tangible way.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <<check that... 'sharp pencil boy'>> Very mature, Jim.> Sorry, leemac, that's how it struck me.
Originally Posted By leemac Jim - Ultimately you can't do the impossible. River raft rides are all the same for a reason - there are massive safety issues involved for a ride system that has free-floating boats and uneven pacing of the conveyances themselves that can't be controlled every step of the journey. You pick your battles. There is little point expending time, energy and money trying to improve on raft ride technology. I think the first one was at AstroWorld in c'80 and there have been few innovations since.
Originally Posted By Mr X I think it would've been cool if they put the seats facing out instead of in... Then you could've done more with scenery, etc... I can understand Lee's point though, considering the inward facing seats.
