Originally Posted By dshyates Leemac, you are right, I was about to make a retraction on the backstory I had described, That is the one I heard back in 2001, but while you were posting the correct backstory I was giving the Googles a workout and found both the one you relayed, and the one I had heard. But the one I had heard was listed on disneylies.com And tuns out is a complete lie. I found the correct one on startedbyamouse.com Here is a link to both: <a href="http://www.disneylies.com/dca/goldenstate/grizzlyriver.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.disneylies.com/dca/...er.shtml</a> <a href="http://www.startedbyamouse.com/features/GrizzlyPeak.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.startedbyamouse.com...ak.shtml</a> Sorry for the confusion.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I'm guessing that dshyates is being sarcastic as that isn't the backstory at all.< I really REALLY HATE IT when someone does this. It's online, people - text on a screen. There's often no freakin' way to tell what a person is thinking as they post. That's why they made smiley faces and other stupid tricks to get emotion across. Posting a false story like this (which more people than just me bought hook line & sinker) is just stupid. Not cool at all, yates, and not at all funny!
Originally Posted By danyoung Hey,yates - I take it all back! I didn't realize you were quoting a story that you believed to be true. My bad, all the way!!!
Originally Posted By dshyates No problem, Dan. Your not the only one who bought it hook line and sinker. I haven't been back since 2002, but the last time I rode GRR, I actually tried to find the bodies and I thought I found the bloody stains on the equipment. I guess it was just rust/age themeing. Just goes to show how dangerous you can be when you think you know something. I actually heard this from a guy sitting in The Hearthstone Lounge. He seemed to know what he was talking about. My guess is he believed it also. I have to wonder how prevalent this story is.
Originally Posted By mawnck I'm starting to hate backstories. Am I the only one who noticed that both of those things are a huge pile of pointless horse foofie? "And then Jet Zoomsalot decided to commemorate the gallant men and women of Squadron 13 and their contribution to winning the War of 1812 by building a big unthemed metal building as cheaply as possible and making up a dumb story to pretend that they did it for artistic reasons."
Originally Posted By leemac <<I'm starting to hate backstories.>> There are definitely issues with them. The question is how integral are they to guests' understanding of the land? I always see them as a foundation for the development of a land or area. They don't need to be explicit or forced. The interesting thing is that both TDS and DCA have extensive backstories to their lands (the TDS guide is particularly massive) - so is the perceived failure of DCA down to the execution of those stories or the environment itself?
Originally Posted By u k fan I have to admit that I must have forgotten these as I have read Tales... issue 5, but the two examples sounded quite similar to me. Did Paradise Pier fall from favor, but was then discovered by some old amusement park fans who decided to use modern technology to update it and make popular again?!!!
Originally Posted By mawnck >>is the perceived failure of DCA down to the execution of those stories or the environment itself?<< I find it very difficult to believe that the stories came first.
Originally Posted By leemac ^^ They did - and they have to otherwise you can't influence the architecture.
Originally Posted By mstaft The "lie" backstory for GRR is something they could have fun with for Halloween Treat!
Originally Posted By mstaft For me, Grizzly Recreation Area and Condor Flats are the heart and soul of DCA- plus the best themed.
Originally Posted By mstaft Shoulda added, I hope the California elements of the park don't disappear in the makeover.
Originally Posted By mousermerf To be blunt, WDI has forgotten how to tell a story - and has confused it with formula. Especially the convention of "plot" which is not inherent nor integral to storytelling. I am not the only person who knows what is happening on Popeye. I am not the first, nor the last. Why did Popeye win so many awards for design while Grizzly won.. none? Critique in art and design is cruel. Particularly when you have a commercial product - you are responsible for appeasing the public. Grizzly has not done that, has failed on all attempts at artistic merit as well (which can easily be argued as the reason for it's public failure), and should not be defended by its creators but rather apologized for with the promise that it will not be repeated. Learn from mistakes. Been saying this to people since 2001? Wikipedia has an editor guideline called "Don't be a dick" which is meant to keep people from constantly wrong doing, unknowing or otherwise. The premise is that if people are calling you a dick repeatedly - maybe you are acting like one. (Note: not meant to call anyone here a dick, drawing a parallel) Similarly if you've been defending this ride to people since 2001 maybe - just maybe - there's something flawed in it. And don't call my opinion amateur or armchair.
Originally Posted By dshyates I think sometimes its just the backstory itself. Like I think the pier suffered from a too convoluted backstory. Resulting in bad excecution. A 60s version of a turn of the century seaside Pier. If they had had the funds to actually build that concept of portraying 2 different time periods. First you have to build it turn of the century style and then go in and age everything. Then add detail indicating what time period you want people to believe they are in. But what was built, was 2000 style buildings with mall store front turn of the centry-esque facades, then threw in some surfboards and piped in beach music. <a href="http://www.startedbyamouse.com/graphics/gallery/ParadisePierNight1280.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.startedbyamouse.com...1280.jpg</a> With Condor Flats, TO ME, it feel like they came at it backwards. I think they started with a ride system they wanted to use, and then worked backwards. Ride system>attraction concept/theme>land/district theme> Backstory. I know that sometimes that is how it is done, but for me, this time it felt very forced.
Originally Posted By dshyates "^^ They did - and they have to otherwise you can't influence the architecture." what time period architecture is supposed to represented in the photo linked in post #155.
Originally Posted By mousermerf It definitely could have been the backstory being pointed toward the intended attraction. Backstory is (imho) a convoluted means to get the creative process going and to give it rules (along the lines of a painter starting with a self-chosen selective pallet rather then painting with every color ever made). It is over-relied upon and used to justify some of the worst designs. It is part of the process of creating, not meant to be the final result (that which is presented to the guests/audience.) To me, it seems at some point the creative team fell in love with the process and forgot about the product. That's where DCA came from. Grand backstory, little good in the actual presented product.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Re Post 111 - if you think Bilge Barge (?) is a fantastic attraction then I won't be able to convince you that it doesn't work/// I'm pretty sure that you missed my point entirely: it's not that Popeye & Bluto is a fantastic, boring, inspirational or pointless attraction; it's not that I find the AA's and sets were done well or not well ..... the point is its AA's tell or advance the story---- whether that story is a good one(or not) is completely immaterial to this discussion. You and some others on here claim AA's won't work on a ride like Grizzly when thousands upon thousands sit and spin on that Popeye drench machine and understand through moving visual aids and audio what the story is. I have a theory: since you hated Popeye & Bluto so much you automatically thow out 'Sweat Pea' with the Bluto's bath water translation...... I theorize since you personally hated Popeye, which uses AA's extensively, then you somehow think that you will hate Grizzly if it had AA's, No?
Originally Posted By leemac <<You and some others on here claim AA's won't work on a ride like Grizzly when thousands upon thousands sit and spin on that Popeye drench machine and understand through moving visual aids and audio what the story is.>> All I can say is that I've had this conversation with a lot of people and I've yet to encounter someone that can actually convey the story of the attraction to me. I've ridden it once and had no idea what was actually going on - the ride just seemed to go on and on and on..... If you can't get it on the first try then the attraction has failed, period.
Originally Posted By mousermerf *sigh* Lee, do you remember the website "ThrillRide" and it's writing on theme parks and attractions back in the day? It chronicled the story of Popeye turn-for-turn within days of the park opening. I knew the story from riding it myself. Many people understand the attraction. Bluto diverts you, he wants to send you through the boat wash (warnings against unscrupulous con-men are ample in the queue). He wants to make a buck off forcing you through his sham offering. Popeye saves you, Olive and Sweet Pea too. He has to fight for his spinach to get the power to rescue you. In terms of details - there's an explosion before you head into the first major rapids. At the faux "fork" in the path there is a Bluto AA spinning a sign for the right path to point to the dangerous path that leads to his boat wash. Wrecked ship - spews water and points out that this part is dangerous. Sharks swim around the base of a larger wrecked boat. Along the way Olive fights off the advances of Bluto. You dive into the octopus cave, where it is seen that Sweet P is going for the spinach and Popeye is fighting off the octopus to protect you. Boat wash time! You go and get washed, Bluto at the controls and making all sorts of comments. At the very top, Sweet Pea has gotten the spinach finally. You drop out of the wash and down the slope. Popeye has spinach and butt-kicks Bluto. Bluto is seen in the next vingette hanging from his pants which are filling with water (and dripping on the rafts as you pass under it). Popeye kisses Olive and wrings her out (she got wet!) and she spits water at the passing rafts. What's so complicated about this?
