Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORWEN: I wish somebody could do MY hair. It's time I had a new do!
Originally Posted By leemac Especially for Skinnerbox! I don't think I've ever been more disappointed in a Pixar film before. All of the mysticism and folk story aspects were entirely jettisoned in the second half. It felt like it had been focus grouped to death - we need more action! We need stuff for boys to like....blah blah blah. The scenery was gorgeous - but the characters just didn't resonate with me at all - I could have done without the cheap Scottish jokes too. I'm sure the Studios is disappointed in its box office gross. I gather this film was north of $225m before marketing and distribution costs so a worldwide gross of c.$530m means it was underwater on its theatrical release. Some of the territories underperformed badly - especially Japan who were entirely turned off by the movie and the UK where it was a long way behind Ice Age 4. I feel so sorry for Brenda that her vision never made it to the screen but that's Hollywood for you. I'm glad she has found a new home. I hope that Mark Andrews is shown the door soon - his two 2012 efforts - John Carter and Brave - weren't good enough from a Pixar writer. His overtly testosterone-fuelled writing is a throw-back to '90s action films.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox First off, thanks much for your post, Lee! <<I don't think I've ever been more disappointed in a Pixar film before. All of the mysticism and folk story aspects were entirely jettisoned in the second half. It felt like it had been focus grouped to death - we need more action! We need stuff for boys to like....blah blah blah.>> I suspected as much, and completely agree. <<The scenery was gorgeous - but the characters just didn't resonate with me at all - I could have done without the cheap Scottish jokes too.>> Ditto! <<I'm sure the Studios is disappointed in its box office gross. I gather this film was north of $225m before marketing and distribution costs so a worldwide gross of c.$530m means it was underwater on its theatrical release.>> OUCH!! This is a major problem for Pixar, from what my Pixarian pals have told me. Costs have been spiraling out of control for the past several years. I don't know why Burbank allows this to continue. I didn't think John had that much clout, to burn through production capital like that. <<Some of the territories underperformed badly - especially Japan who were entirely turned off by the movie and the UK where it was a long way behind Ice Age 4.>> Japan performing poorly doesn't surprise me. But UK? I figured the Scotland connection would have been good enough, allowing Brave to perform as well as Rat did in France. Of course, Ratatouille was a good movie. So that probably had something to do with it. 8^D <<I feel so sorry for Brenda that her vision never made it to the screen but that's Hollywood for you. I'm glad she has found a new home.>> Ditto! I hope Lucasfilm gives her enough freedom to craft the films her fans know she's capable of producing. <<I hope that Mark Andrews is shown the door soon - his two 2012 efforts - John Carter and Brave - weren't good enough from a Pixar writer. His overtly testosterone-fuelled writing is a throw-back to '90s action films.>> Yeah, this is one I don't get. It must be the Boy's Clubhouse mentality that's protecting him. And you're spot on about the testosterone. Pixar is soooo overdosed in testosterone now, it's pathetic. Toy Story 3 was essentially a prison escape flick. Cars 2 was a spy thriller. And the upcoming Monster's University will undoubtedly be overloaded with frat house humor. All the typical genres most watched by male-centric audiences. Firing Brenda off Brave was a mistake. Losing Brenda to Lucasfilm was a joke. Ultimately, Lasseter is responsible for the Boy's Clubhouse mentality and the loss of talent Pixar has experienced for the past seven years or so because of it. Audiences are changing, but Pixar seems stuck. Given what they've produced for the past few films, I don't see how this is going to reverse until the Boy's Clubhouse is significantly downsized.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Costs have been spiraling out of control for the past several years. I don't know why Burbank allows this to continue. I didn't think John had that much clout, to burn through production capital like that.>> I think it is a combination of two things: 1) Massive upheavals in Pixar development has been the norm and these type of changes have always worked in the past. Lasseter and Catmull think it is part of what makes Pixar great - a badge of honor "we made the tough calls". Another example of them flexing their muscles. 2) The medium itself. The problem is that you get so deep into production that you can't go back so you throw a lot more cash at it to make it work. Remember that Rich Ross had absolutely no control over WDAS or Pixar - he wasn't given a brief to manage either so had to just go with the flow. His successor Alan Horn has oversight - wise move. I'm sure that rankles Lasseter and Catmull. All in Brave cost the company $350m in the US. <<Ultimately, Lasseter is responsible for the Boy's Clubhouse mentality and the loss of talent Pixar has experienced for the past seven years or so because of it.>> No need for me to rehash my opinion of Lasseter here. Sad but true - I was surprised that Stanton was taken back - he isn't a popular character in Emeryville (arrogant, aloof and condescending) and I thought they would have taken the opportunity to push him out after John Carter. I'm just glad that Pete Docter is still there - after Joe Ranft he has always been the nicest of the brain trust.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<All in Brave cost the company $350m in the US.>> Un-freakin-believable. <<Sad but true - I was surprised that Stanton was taken back - he isn't a popular character in Emeryville (arrogant, aloof and condescending) and I thought they would have taken the opportunity to push him out after John Carter.>> I had a brief but somewhat rude encounter with him in the parking lot, many years ago. And one of my pals was deathly afraid of running into him on campus. I'm not surprised by your description one bit. He's another founding member of the Boys' Clubhouse, so I don't see Lasseter having the guts to push him out. <<I'm just glad that Pete Docter is still there - after Joe Ranft he has always been the nicest of the brain trust.>> Pete and Bob Peterson are both jewels. I've had very pleasant encounters with them, at Pixar and the Walt Disney Family Museum. I've heard no early buzz on Peterson's film (Good Dinosaur), but I hope it turns Pixar around and puts it back on course.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: My sisters and I have to agree with your assessment, leemac, duckling. Brave just didn't do a single thing for us either. The main character wasn't all that appealing to us right from the start.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>><<Some of the territories underperformed badly - especially Japan who were entirely turned off by the movie and the UK where it was a long way behind Ice Age 4.>> Japan performing poorly doesn't surprise me. But UK? I figured the Scotland connection would have been good enough, allowing Brave to perform as well as Rat did in France. Of course, Ratatouille was a good movie. So that probably had something to do with it. 8^D<<< I think that it may have also been a perception of how the film would portray Scottish culture. While Ratatouille celebrated the French cuisine, Brave just used Scottish culture as a never-ending slapstick gag. It was pretty clear that was the approach in the US trailers; I assume it was similar in the UK. For a comparison, think about how the Dukes of Hazard movies did in the US a few years back. Nationwide, they did pretty okay, but nobody in the South went to see them. If it looks like it's just going to use your background for punchlines, why bother?
Originally Posted By dagobert I wish I would have seen the original movie, but honestly I have to say that I liked Brave. After the Cars 2 disappointment, it was a movie that made me laugh. I admit that the second half was not so good, it was better than A Bug's Life and Cars 2.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I admit that the second half was not so good, it was better than A Bug's Life and Cars 2.>> I'm one of the few that love A Bug's Life. Always loved the characters and even though it was a rip-off of classic move-storytelling there was something about it that I found so charming - and it always makes me laugh. Cars and Cars 2 are awful - can't watch either.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Pete and Bob Peterson are both jewels. I've had very pleasant encounters with them, at Pixar and the Walt Disney Family Museum. I've heard no early buzz on Peterson's film (Good Dinosaur), but I hope it turns Pixar around and puts it back on course.>> Bob is a tremendous fellow - so humble and charming. I'm glad he has been given the opportunity to properly lead a feature. I'm skeptical about the story but he is a great story guy so I'm sure he will work it out. I hope he is able to find a way to make it work. I wish Pixar had stuck with Gary Rydstrom's Newt too - it was a delightful feature with a wonderfully witty script. It deserved better than to be dumped in the garbage.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I had a brief but somewhat rude encounter with him in the parking lot, many years ago. And one of my pals was deathly afraid of running into him on campus. I'm not surprised by your description one bit. He's another founding member of the Boys' Clubhouse, so I don't see Lasseter having the guts to push him out.>> I don't know anyone that has a good word to say for Andrew. He is meant to be a deeply unpleasant person to work for - very combustible. I've had several encounters with him on various Nemo things and also during his John Carter pre-production schedule - the ego was off the charts. It made it very difficult to work with him to come up with ideas. He'll rest on the laurels of Finding Nemo forever. I still can't fathom why they want to revisit that world - I'd have left well enough alone - it doesn't need a sequel or prequel.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>He'll rest on the laurels of Finding Nemo forever. I still can't fathom why they want to revisit that world - I'd have left well enough alone - it doesn't need a sequel or prequel.<<< A Finding Nemo sequel/prequel is coming? When does Pixar create something original again? But DreamWorks isn't any better. That's really disappointing, that Newt was canceled. It looked very promising.
Originally Posted By leemac <<But DreamWorks isn't any better.>> I think they are still better balanced these days - plenty of new stuff from them like Rise of the Guardians and The Croods. They are actively trying to create new franchises rather than trying to always extend the lifespan of others.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I like Cars, but my favourites are still Ratatouille, Wall-E and TS 3.>> Has to be Nemo and Monsters at the top of my list - love them both dearly. Ratatouille and Wall-E are both excellent too. I'm the anomaly around here as I don't particularly like The Incredibles but it is still better than Cars! I don't mind the TS movies but I struggle to empathize with any of the characters so the concept just doesn't quite work with me.
Originally Posted By dagobert I wonder if Pixar would have created all those sequels/prequels without being bought by TWDC?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I'm the anomaly around here as I don't particularly like The Incredibles but it is still better than Cars! > I agree. Incredibles is middle-of-the pack Pixar for me... of course, until Cars2, I thought ALL the Pixars were excellent except for Cars (1), which I thought was still good. They had a tremendous run, and I sure hope they can get back on track.
Originally Posted By u k fan <<<I don't mind the TS movies but I struggle to empathize with any of the characters so the concept just doesn't quite work with me.>>> That's exactly how I feel. Rat... is the only Pixar film I've watched just once by choice. Not for me I'm afraid!!!
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>>I wonder if Pixar would have created all those sequels/prequels without being bought by TWDC? <<< I don't know, but I'm sure Cars 2 would still have been made.
Originally Posted By magic0214 When they had that Movie Slate presentation a few years ago (Seems like decades ago when they were announcing "The King of the Elves"!), I remember seeing the concept art, logo and description for Newt and being so excited. It was my most anticipated Disney movie for the longest time and I was extremely disappointed to see it pushed off the drawing board. I hope that it makes a reappearance sometime in the near future. As far as Brave goes...I was the biggest fan. I saw it 4 times in theaters. I loved the score, the setting, the characters, even the storyline (though I have seen it many times before). My top 3 Pixar has to be Ratatouille, Up and Brave. When it comes to the upcoming slate, they all seem very solid. I was a little apprehensive at first about a Pixar prequel, but the more I see of it (and the more I see of the awesome website!), Monsters University looks great. Good Dinosaur seems cool, and I feel like Pixar animating dinosaurs seems like a match made in artistic heaven. The one I am most excited about though is Lee Unkrich's one about the Mexican Halloween. Seems like such a neat setting that it is already a win in my book. I can't wait for concept art!
