Originally Posted By ElKay Say Woody, aren't we already paying the price? To an unnecessary pricetag of over $50 million? Except for the budget issue, none of the props really deserve to be ammended to the Calif. Constitution, and especially in a special election. da Gubenator could have worked with the Dem majority before resorting to this unnecessary ammending process. The Dems wanted to work out a compromise, but da Gubenator felt he had more clout by governing by proposition, instead of leadership. That's why almost all of his propositions are loosing. da Gubenator looks like he's going the way of Minnesota's Jessie Ventura--down the tubes.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>Okay, you want Arnold to fail, but it's a false victory. California will pay the price.<< Oooh, I'm a-scairt. Fact is, I don't think anyone disagrees about the need for reform. The real questions are: Couldn't this election wait until June? Are these the ONLY options for reform or are there better alternatives that didn't make the ballot because they weren't presented by Schwarzenegger's people? Looking at the big picture, the funky four (74, 75, 76 and 77) amount to an arrogation of absolute power to the Executive Branch of California Government, the Governor (Can you say Palpatine?). 74 makes it easier to keep teachers quiet with the threat of failure on probation or two negative performance evaluations that are not subject to review or appeal until AFTER the teacher is fired. 75 silences opposition to Schwarzenegger's opponents in labor by adding cumbersome and costly paperwork requirements before funds can be used to support political causes that benefit those employees. 76 makes it possible for the Governor to cut funding, abrogate contracts and create false "emergencies." 77 is just too wierd...there are better ways to do it and they're not being presented. Now, do I think that the issues that the rabid right brings forward as problems need to be addressed? Sure. The thing is...their solutions aren't the best solutions.
Originally Posted By woody "Couldn't this election wait until June?" NO. You're a laugh. I suppose Arnold would get better results from a stacked Democratic legislature. He done what he could with them. It's time for the people to act as an end around the ineffective legislature. There are NO better solutions. Only NO solutions.
Originally Posted By woody "Say Woody, aren't we already paying the price? To an unnecessary pricetag of over $50 million?" It's a small price to pay. The special election will go forward. It's paid for. Prop 76 will try to fix the spending issue. Give Arnold the power. There is sufficient safeguards to allow the legislature the flexibility to fix the deficits, otherwise the Governor can step. Your concern over process ignores a broken process.
Originally Posted By cmpaley Speaking of laughs. I can think of better ways of reforming education right here. The same goes for the budget process. In fact, I've posted what I believe to be the best solution to California's budget problems but it gets rejected because it doesn't come from an RNC fax or the John and Ken Show. There ARE better solutions. In fact, many of those better solutions were put forward in the last few weeks before Schwarzenegger pulled the trigger on his Special Interest Election. The better solutions were put down. That's the thing with modern Republicans. It's their way or NO way.
Originally Posted By woody Those propositions are quite reasonable. The changes seem to get interpreted in the worse way. They are misrepresented. Let Arnold do his job. The governor really doesn't have much power. The Democratic legislature messed it up BIG TIME yet you accuse Republicans of wanting their way when the Democrats show no sign of giving an adequate solution. You want NO solution.
Originally Posted By woody "In fact, I've posted what I believe to be the best solution to California's budget problems but it gets rejected because it doesn't come from an RNC fax or the John and Ken Show." If you give it to the legislature, will they approve it? I'm not sure where you're coming from. Is your plan more aligned with the Democrats or Republicans? Is it in the middle? Let me say it slowly to you... The Democratic Legislature does not listen to the RNC. The RNC has no influence in California. Arnold's influence is quite limited. Arnold is the most moderate Republican you're going to get especially in California where McClintock is further on the Right. Getting mad with Arnold is NOT the solution.
Originally Posted By cmpaley The Governor doesn't have that much power? Oh really? Let's see. First, it is the Governor who appoints the Director of Finance, who serves at the pleasure of the Governor. Second, it is the Department of Finance that will make the revenue estimates that will determine whether or not a fiscal "emergency" can be prepared. Third, if there is a fiscal emergency, unless the opposition party has a lock on 2/3 of the legislature, the Governor WILL get the budget to cut as he chooses. In fact, the language is: "the Governor's authority to reduce appropriations shall apply to any General Fund payment made with respect to any contract, collective bargaining agreement, or other entitlement for which liability of the State to pay arises..." Let's use those three facts to set up a scenario, shall we? The Governor doesn't like the fact that a contractor that didn't contribute to his poltical campaigns got a major contract Additionally, all of the state employee unions got decent contracts. He makes a call to his Director of Finance and orders the Director to overestimate the revenues by, say, 2%. The budget passes using his fake numbers and the numbers fall short. The trigger is pulled and the Legislature fails to make the necessary budget adjustments because the minority party (interestingly, the party of the Governor) holds things up, so the Governor, using his dictatorial powers, can abrogate the contract on both the contractor that didn't pay him off and the employees who negotiated in good faith. Prop 76 is a recipe for disaster for California. Now, there are a lot of good provisions in 76. The problems have to do with the "ratchet down" effect and the dictatorial powers. Remove those and make some adjustments here and there and I have no problem. That's the thing. In order for it to work for everyone, there must be compromise. 76 allows for no compromise.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>I'm not sure where you're coming from. Is your plan more aligned with the Democrats or Republicans? Is it in the middle?<< The middle. It has to do with correcting Gray Davis' mistake of giving in to both the Democrats with new programs and the Republicans with massive tax cuts. I would undo the 2000 budget and move forward using real numbers in terms of how much growth the State realized in revenue and use those numbers for the next year's budget. I would impose a new requirement that ANY new program must have its own source of funding and I would impose the "PAY AS YOU GO" provisions used by Congress during the Clinton years that got us out of deficit and into surplus. Here's the problem and why it's precisely the moderate and best solution. The Democrats would say it's too aligned with the Republicans because it closes down relatively new projects. Not necessarily. If they can find a reliable funding stream to tie to that project then they can keep it. The Republicans would hate it because it involves rolling back their tax cuts. "You're raising taxes" they would cry. Well, not really. and not all that much. Everything would revert to what it was in 2000 when we had the biggest budget surplus in California history.
Originally Posted By woody "The Governor doesn't have that much power? Oh really?" You're making more assumptions. First, I was referring to the current situation where there isn't much power. Second, you set up a situation where the Governor could theoretically set-up a situation where he could act this way, but reality may be less radical especially if the legislature proposes a balanced budget. Will they? Otherwise the legislature is truly corrupt to not knowing what they're voting for and you're giving them a pass. I love your Hail Mary argument. Talk about MISREPRESENTATION. Clever to the last.
Originally Posted By cmpaley Come on! The minority has ALL the power in the budget process. Nothing gets done on the budget without bowing and scraping to the Republican minority in the Assembly and the Senate. Ever hear of the 2/3 requirement?
Originally Posted By woody "Ever hear of the 2/3 requirement?" YES, and this is the only thing preventing California from turning into a TOTAL mess. You really don't believe in checks and balances because you don't trust the Governor to do anything. I suppose you'll let the Democratic Legisture have it's simple majority vote and keep the Governor weak. That's a solution of burying California. Good luck to you.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>You really don't believe in checks and balances<< Actually, I DO believe in checks and balances. The current process is checked and balanced. The problem is that there are so many requirements that the process has become a total mess. >>because you don't trust the Governor to do anything.<< Um...well, to be honest, not THIS Governor. He's proven time and time again that he can't be trusted for anything. >>I suppose you'll let the Democratic Legisture have it's simple majority vote and keep the Governor weak. That's a solution of burying California.<< First, there is no "simple majority vote" on the budget. The California Constitution requires a 2/3 vote in order to pass the budget. Second, the Governor is not weak right now. He has plenty of executive authority, including a power that even the President doesn't have: the line item veto. As I heard in a movie once, "Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes."
Originally Posted By ElKay You make good points cmpaley. If Arnold gets his way on the Budget prop, then it would be so easy for a Republican minority in the Legislature to thwart the majority Dems by purposely blocking any meaningful compromises, waiting for a Republican govenor to make cuts that the minority couldn't push through. Don't just blame Dems for the Calif. budget mess. As with the GOP controlled Congress, they have their own "pork" projects that they lavish on their own partisan supporters. The state prison guards union spent lavishly for GOP govenors and legislators inorder to increase prison building and staff expansion. GOP politicians are more likely to be as profligate as their Dem foes, only they want to be know as Spend and Cut, not concerning themselves with how to pay for their spending.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<"We might have an 0-and-8 election here,'' said Hoover Institution researcher Bill Whalen, a Republican. "I don't know if it's ever happened before." >> This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Once again the liberals are going to get all exicited about something that is not based in reality. I'm not saying that Arnold gets every measure to pass, but 0 for 8? I am willing to bet anyone a set of Disney AP's on this one. You know where to find me if you have the guts to take the bet and possibly win some passes. I predict 5 out of the 8 pass by the way. The abortion notification is a slam dunk to pass and so is 75 and 77. The drug and electricity measures might go down but who cares about those. Prop 76 is to close to call. But heaven forbid the losers in the California Govt. have to limit their spending.. because if they don't Arnold the evil one will just take over and nuke the entire state with all that " power " he supposedly would have. What's the dems plan to fix the state again??? Crickets...
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>What's the dems plan to fix the state again???<< They weren't invited to the table.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<They weren't invited to the table.>> That's not what I heard.. and that doesn't exactly tell us what the dems would do if they had power. Wait.. they HAD power and pretty much destroyed the state of California. Now the same people who destroyed the state have the nerve to tell Arnold that he is a bad guy? Tell me the people in that state are not that stupid to see right through this.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>That's not what I heard..<< Depends on what you heard. It is true that there were "negotiations," but I don't think they were conducted in good faith. Of course, Republicans don't believe in negotiating in good faith. It's all about power and control. No, I don't think it will be 0 for 8 but I think that if voter turnout is better than Schwarzenegger is hoping for (he wants a low turnout), his special interest election may end up being a big waste of money the State doesn't have.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy The state will have plenty of money if they control their spending as Arnold is trying to push through. It will be fun to watch.
Originally Posted By cmpaley Naivete is so unbecoming. This whole thing is about power...the arrogation of power unto one man without recourse, appeal or oversight.
