Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Really? Both figures on the same stage at the same time, doing the same thing?<< No, one was in New York and the other was in Disneyland.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I always hear how Lincoln was such a great innovation, wowing guests at the Fair because he was the first human AA, but what about Carousel of Progress? No, those figures didn't have the same range of motion as Lincoln, but they hid it cleverly enough that you wouldn't notice it unless you're looking for it. COP had several scenes with a dozen (or more?) AA's, a catchy theme song, and a spectacular rotating building. Yet nobody seems to talk about how the AA's for it were a great innovation. Just curious as to why this may be.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "My understanding was that the Lincoln AA was the first ever..." The first human AA. The first AAs were the birds in The Enchanted Tiki Room.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I always hear how Lincoln was such a great innovation, wowing guests at the Fair because he was the first human AA, but what about Carousel of Progress?" Good point.
Originally Posted By DlandDug I think Lincoln was more captivating because he was a recognizable historic figure. Also, he was the sole performer in the Illinois presentation, as opposed to the full stage presentation of CoP. It would be interesting to see how the press coverage of each stacked up. Walt did get a lot of mileage by sending "Grandma" from the CoP to New York City in a first class airline seat, accompanied by an attractive young lady. Mr. Lincoln, on the other hand, was shipped in a packing crate. There was another set of AA figures at the Fair as well-- the cavemen of the Ford Magic Skyway. Walt was NOT happy with them and they somehow never made it back to Disneyland, although the dinosaurs certainly did. <a href="http://icanhaspixiedust.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/disneyfordmagicskywaycavemen.jpg?w=300&h=204" target="_blank">http://icanhaspixiedust.files....00&h=204</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan There was another set of AA figures at the Fair as well-- the cavemen of the Ford Magic Skyway. Walt was NOT happy with them and they somehow never made it back to Disneyland<< The AA cavemen fell on hard times. "Me used to be Disney performer," said Grank. "Now me hustle to make living in Times Square." A tragic end to such a promising beginning.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Lincoln was at the time the most sophisticated AA figure, human or animal. That's why he was such a wow at the time. The fact that he could stand up was probably the biggest "gasp" moment. Read the reviews at the time and you'll read things like "he seems to scan the audience for their reaction... he almost seems to breathe." Viewed today that figure seems far more simple, but at the time it was absolutely state of the art.
Originally Posted By unforgetabledal >><Mr. Lincoln was done in a very inspiring way. Walt did not go after weaknesses in Abe Lincoln, even though every man has weaknesses.> >>But it DID go after weaknesses in our country.<< Not at all; what it showed was the greatness of America. Every country has, and had it's weaknesses, but Walt showed that America was the great shinning light that wanted to right wrongs. Not just show negatives, for the sake of showing that America was a bad place. Walt made everything uplifting, not the “see, see, America is not perfect so there” kind of history that Golden Dreams was trying to show.
Originally Posted By unforgetabledal Anyway, Disney made the right move in getting rid of Golden Dreams. The fact that it brings such negative passion on both sides, shows that it had no place in a Disney park, no matter what side you're on.
Originally Posted By SafariRob I think I might have to go back and re-watch Golden Drams on Youtube. I've only seen it once...in 2001.
Originally Posted By unforgetabledal >>I think I might have to go back and re-watch Golden Drams on Youtube. I've only seen it once...in 2001.<< Only if it's a must, why turcher yourself! To tell the truth only saw the show one time on a special day for clear channel communications. I worked for a radio station in San Diego at the time. This was before the general public could see it. The group I was with all felt the movie was out of place, and we where a mix of people from all kinds of media. Also we had liberals, moderates, and conservatives in our group of 15 or so people. All just felt there was a time and place for politics, and this was just not the place.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I think I might have to go back and re-watch Golden Drams on Youtube." I think so too. All this talk about how negative it was is completely off base.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "Not at all; what it showed was the greatness of America" I can only assume you're too young to have seen the original show in the 60's (and if you work for ClearChannel, I'm almost sure you are--I don't think they hire old farts like me). What it showed were far more disturbing warts than GD ever did. "Not just show negatives, for the sake of showing that America was a bad place. " That's not what GD did. And geez, for a guy who said he had finished talking about it days ago, you sure don't seem to like it when others of us voice a different opinion. You didn't like it. Some of us did. Get over it.
Originally Posted By unforgetabledal >>That's not what GD did. And geez, for a guy who said he had finished talking about it days ago, you sure don't seem to like it when others of us voice a different opinion. You didn't like it. Some of us did. Get over it.<< It is gone I'm happy. There is nothing for me to get over. >>you sure don't seem to like it when others of us voice a different opinion.<< Please quote me where I said I did not like other people voicing their opinion, did I miss something? I love that others want to defend something they liked. The fact that I think the film was a silly politically correct telling of California history, Is just my opinion, as is yours that is true history. But again, I love to hear you, and others voice their opinion, as wrong as I think it is. To me the film Golden Dreams is a P.C. fantasy, but if others think it’s good history then I’m more then happy to read why you think that is the case.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Walt had designers working on the attraction that eventually became The Hall of Presidents as early as 1956. 'One Nation Under God' was intended as the centerpiece of Liberty Street, which was never built in Disneyland, but was built in Disney World as Liberty Square." That name would've been far more offensive than anything in Golden Dreams. "I didn't treat my youngsters like frail flowers, and I think no parent should. Children are people, and they should have to reach to learn about things, to understand things, just as adults have to reach if they want to grow in mental stature. Life is composed of lights and shadows, and we would be untruthful, insincere, and saccharine if we tried to pretend there were no shadows. Most things are good, and they are the strongest things; but there are evil things too, and you are not doing a child a favor by trying to shield him from reality. The important thing is to teach a child that good can always triumph over evil, and that is what our pictures do." I tend to find Walt quotes tiresome on Disney boards, but this is a good one. "Not at all; what it showed was the greatness of America." Needing a bloody and violent civil war, one of the bloodiest in U.S. history, is a far more shameful thing than anything in Golden Dreams. And a reading of history shows that no matter how much Lincoln was against slavery, it was a very dicey position even amongst the Northerners. This may have been understandable if the USA was leading the way on this issue, but we weren't. We were way behind. But, yeah, Golden Dreams was "politically correct" (one of the stupidest phrases ever*), but GMMWML shows the greatness that is the US. As great a president as Lincoln was, it was an embarrassing time for this country. *"To me the film Golden Dreams is a P.C. fantasy," Your problem with GD was that it wasn't PC enough.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "To me the film Golden Dreams is a P.C. fantasy..." Ironically that's precisely what made it Disney. It seems to me that it isn't the tone or the topic that you had an issue with. It was the way the subject matter was handled.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "It is gone I'm happy. There is nothing for me to get over. " Sure there is. You said you were done with this, but every time someone chimes in with a differing opinion, you can't let it go. That's telling. "Is just my opinion, as is yours that is true history. " You're entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. There was nothing presented in GD that was not true history. Many immigrants DID face hardship; that's a simple fact. Even you must know this. So what you're objecting to is not whether it was true or not, but the TONE. You want it all positive, all "America is perfect," no warts. And THAT is what would be false history. The irony is that GD was 95% celebratory as it was. But even that 5% was enough for you to brand it with the dreaded "pc" label. Which is also telling.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>The fact that it brings such negative passion on both sides, shows that it had no place in a Disney park, no matter what side you're on.<<< Well that is not true, they are shoving toons down our throats, to the extent where I want to bring pick axes and sledge hammers in to get rid of it, and yet they keep shilling it. And FWIW, I do not think you were paying attention in Golden Dreams, the key message was that Californians have dreams, things do not go to plan always, but overall those dreams can and do come true as we overcome adversity. Though these messages are not just true to California, or America. It always makes me laugh, the jingoism that prides the luck of your mother being in a certain place when you popped out. Lol
Originally Posted By unforgetabledal >>"Your problem with GD was that it wasn't PC enough."<< That's, funny I must say. >>'One Nation Under God' was intended as the centerpiece of Liberty Street, which was never built in Disneyland, but was built in Disney World as Liberty Square." That name would've been far more offensive than anything in Golden Dreams.<< Why? >>And a reading of history shows that no matter how much Lincoln was against slavery, it was a very dicey position even amongst the Northerners. This may have been understandable if the USA was leading the way on this issue, but we weren't. We were way behind.<< Please explain how we where way behind the rest of the world? Slavery still goes on in the muslim world today, so I’m a bit confused with your statement.
Originally Posted By unforgetabledal >>Well that is not true, they are shoving toons down our throats, to the extent where I want to bring pick axes and sledge hammers in to get rid of it, and yet they keep shilling it.<< Well ok, no question you are right there. But that is still no reason to ever have made GD.
