Originally Posted By skinnerbox Management is very pleased with Star Tours 2.0, which was his project. I highly doubt they would agree with your statement.
Originally Posted By leemac Oh where to begin..... The writing has been on the wall for pretty much the whole of this year. It became apparent as early as January that he was being shoved out. He wasn't invited to meetings like he used to be. He wasn't traveling the globe like he has done since his promotion back in November 2005. He didn't join the junket to see TDR's operations post-earthquake like I'd expected. I've absolutely nothing personal against Al. He is a charming guy - warm, friendly and personable. He has a great sense of humor. However he is a puppet - all he ever did was carry out Rasulo's bidding (hence his internal nickname as the flying monkey). He was a decent operator but anything outside of how to open and close a park was way beyond his skillset. He was deeply uncomfortable in creative meetings. I've got a certain amount of respect for aspects of how he has run WDW Co. in the past. His handling of the post-9/11 fallout was exceptional - he made a lot of quick decisions, communicated strongly with CMs and kept the place afloat. Those were tough decisions but ultimately the right ones. The problem was that he was a slave to the income statement - always squeezing costs at the operational level. Plain and simple - Tom hates the Rasulo organizational structure at WDP&R. Worldwide Ops is at the heart of the disfunction at the division. WW Ops is the poster child for organizational creep - it has kept adding headcount and trying to meddle in local operations. Its vision for Disney Parks has some value but trying to grap power for local operators who know their audience better (and know that it is different in say, Anaheim than Orlando) is ridiculous. Tom has been coy about his plans for WW Ops but I suspect it will be disbanded. I would wager that some elements will remain (Products and Services that help to create synergistic entertainment product like HSM) but this shoehorning concepts into every park may disappear. Yesterday was a chink of light in the gloomy skies above Burbank. This is about Tom putting his mark on WDP&R and beginning to carefully unpick the Rasulo legacy. I've always been a TOS supporter and he went even further up in my perception of him yesterday.
Originally Posted By leemac <<It's also a reminder that anyone over the age of 55 is considered done by Disney standards of today (Iger excepted naturally!)>> I'm not sure that is a fair comment really. I would never accuse the Company of being ageist. I've never seen any example of the Company removing from an office an individual because he/she was "over the hill".
Originally Posted By leemac <<WDI has been at the root of the cancer that has inflicted the U.S. park experience in the last 15 years. With all the layoffs at WDI during that same time period, for the most part, it was the wrong people either leaving or being shown the door. To me, this has lend itself to the many expensive disasters they have wreaked on the company and its customers.>> Now, now I'm sure you knew I couldn't let that one slip past without comment. Naturally I vehemently disagree. WDI is nothing but a creative pawn in the power struggle with corporate. It's voice at the table has been weakened over the years as successive chairmen have sought to collect power at the center. WDI is definitely not the "root of the cancer" - to continue that analogy it is the symptom of the disease that is WDP&R management. The problem has always been that WDI is the at the front line for the fanbase. It is in a terrible Catch-22 - when a project is successful they rarely get the credit but when it fails (or elements of it fail) then it carries the can. Every single veteran imagineer has had successes and failures - even those held in high esteem like Joe Rohde and Tony Baxter have had stinkers. However that is only part of the story - is Joe responsible for the fact that there was no budget for the "bird of the stick" track switch? It is just never that clear-cut. However to call out for removals like Eric Jacobson and Tom Fitzgerald isn't fair at all. There are numerous imagineers that have departed that should never have been forced out (like Tim Delaney and Rick Rothschild) but that doesn't mean they are the benchmarks for the next round of cuts.
Originally Posted By MousDad >>Plain and simple - Tom hates the Rasulo organizational structure at WDP&R. Worldwide Ops is at the heart of the disfunction at the division. WW Ops is the poster child for organizational creep - it has kept adding headcount and trying to meddle in local operations. Its vision for Disney Parks has some value but trying to grap power for local operators who know their audience better (and know that it is different in say, Anaheim than Orlando) is ridiculous. Tom has been coy about his plans for WW Ops but I suspect it will be disbanded. I would wager that some elements will remain (Products and Services that help to create synergistic entertainment product like HSM) but this shoehorning concepts into every park may disappear.<< Holy moley, this paragraph is the single most invigorating, hope-inducing, light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel, darkest-before-the-dawn, groundbreakingly fantastic piece of info I've read on a Disney message board in years.
Originally Posted By standor Why get rid of the old and experienced? Just get rid of the hangers on who contribute nothing. What we need are imagineers who have imagination and know how, no matter what's their age.
Originally Posted By ReelJustice <<is Joe responsible for the fact that there was no budget for the "bird of the stick" track switch? It is just never that clear-cut.>> Maybe a few less trips to the Himalayas, a slightly less elaborate queue, or a simpler (WORKING) Yeti AA would have done the trick..
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>Plain and simple - Tom hates the Rasulo organizational structure at WDP&R. Worldwide Ops is at the heart of the disfunction at the division.... Yesterday was a chink of light in the gloomy skies above Burbank. This is about Tom putting his mark on WDP&R and beginning to carefully unpick the Rasulo legacy. I've always been a TOS supporter and he went even further up in my perception of him yesterday.<<<<< Very, very heartening to hear. Tom sounds like he wants to create a quality product again. The next question will be how much he builds, and what he builds. If he starts infusing the parks with originality again, he'll be fantastic. I'm hopeful.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Leemac, you and I rarely see eye-to-eye, but that post was one of the greatest things I've ever read.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Seriously, you're going to put Eric in that group?<< Certainly. >>And Joe?<< I didn't invoke his name, but at some point he needs to take real charge of a project or move on. >>What about Tom's success with Star Tours 2.0?<< Skinner, I know my opinion on this is in the minority and causes me to be highly unpopular. I very well might be wrong and the whole world around me, right. I do agree with the past criticisms of corporate. None of these WDI personalities are bigger than WDP&R or its mission. A lot of them have been playing their own selfish political games at the cost of the organization, the parks, and the customer. In my eyes they have all outstayed their welcome and their usefulness. Was ST2 a success? Sure. They had 15 years to make sure it went well and the help of LucasArts/Films. Since when did successful refurbishments become the exception rather than the norm? Oh yeah: Test Track - Overbudget, missed timelines SSE - Simple refurb of animatronics, awful script, score, and decent TLS - Theme Park Productions song and screen. I actually liked the repurposing of the pavilion, the new omnimover ride, but still, meh. Canada Circlevision - Theme Park Productions song and screen. Mexico Boatride - Theme Park Productions song and screen. Mission: Space - WAY Overbudget, unpopularly received. Captain EO - Talk about desperate and devoid of any new IDEAS, you know WDI - IDEAS. Journey into YOUR Imagination - No comment Journey into YOUR Imagination with FIGMENT - no comment Retheme of Adventureland due to Magic Carpets - complete mis-interpretation Tiki Room under new management - junk Pirates w/ Sparrow - Awful, superficial HoP - Good Haunted Mansion - Good and Bad Phil - Good, considering what it replaced was ignored by guests Pooh - 2nd rate addition, DL's overbudget Stitch - Awful, great example of how it's not the $$ given to the project but how it's used. Kevin's write-up should have never seen the light of day and wasn't a symptom of the budget. Monsters - Awful, again, not an issue of money but one of taste, preference, and the will of technocrats to rely on Living Character. Space Mountain sound - Awful implementation, why do it just to do it? TSMM - Over-rated. Theme Park Productions screens American Idol - Late to the party, waste of money to implement and run. Auto Stunt Show - Redundant, waste of money to implement and run. ... So I understand why everyone is breathing a deep sigh of relief on Star Tours. It doesn't mean, based on past performance, these guys are entitled to play king in a group where their high salaries are billed to projects eating up the financial resources they complain that they don't have. Taking away the resources from the team to use in providing a great product. I tried to only list things above that they were involved in repurposing. Let alone list when they try to create things from scratch like Superstar Limo or DinoRama. ...Or go into entire missteps with parks like WDSP. Lots of convolution when they are working from scratch on specific attractions. They get their paycheck, their company car. They receive their budgets from corporate who puts a strong amount of faith in them to produce first class theme park additions. What they turn around back to the parks is lackluster and ends up costing the company more to come back and fix it. To maintain it. To operate it. Then there is the issue of being so intellectually ingrained, that they can't let dead concepts die or take afresh look at anything. Circusland? Really? Are you kidding? That's the best they could 'dream' up?! That's the one idea they have already 'thought of' way before any silly lay person. The budgets for these projects are well within the realm of reason. Look at what Universal spends, the foreign parks spend. These guys and their egos A) Cost the budget for their cursory management oversight and direction B) Incorrectly prioritize the budget on the wrong things (e.g., DL Pooh vehicles) C) Misunderstand what folks find as entertaining to visit at a theme park. (e.g., Auto stunt show) Since the late 90's I have always understood why corporate had it out to get these folks. They waste money on the wrong things and people. The money they do get they squander on ideas that are not practical or popular. So, we are at a point now where what they should have been doing all along, they do once, and everyone acts like it's the second coming. >>Sure, these guys are a bit long in the tooth, but not worthless. Plus, the new kids are still not ready to remove their training wheels just yet.<< And this, I can't agree more with Skinner. But you know why we find ourselves in this exact situation? Why a corporation such as Disney has this issue? Because these personalities that everyone want to cling on to, read their books, shake their hands at press events, have played selfish, personal politics which have decimated the organization of talent and a succession strategy. So, yes, I agree the new crop of folks have a way to go, but its not their fault. This organization use to be headed up by real artists and craftsman, lately its had its fair share of technocrats. So what is the solution? >>Sorry, but I don't agree with you. Age is not a bad thing.<< I understand why we don't agree, but it's not about age. I'm no spring chicken. It's about judgment, taste, hard-work, and, greed, ego. >>Getting rid of all the old school Imagineers is shortsighted and just plain dumb<< I know, it's too bad it has already happened. Now, I'd like to see those who have been living high on the hog be shown the door. --- And let me just finish by saying that there are some real talented folks still working at WDI who truly get it. Tony is one of those. However, at the end of the day, they aren't the ones in control and the cause for the disfunction for the last 15 years.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Now, now I'm sure you knew I couldn't let that one slip past without comment.<< I would expect nothing less Lee. >>Naturally I vehemently disagree.<< Naturally >>WDI is nothing but a creative pawn in the power struggle with corporate. It's voice at the table has been weakened over the years as successive chairmen have sought to collect power at the center.<< A pawn maybe, but creative? Lee... Creative? Don Goodman was a creative pawn? Barry Braverman a creative pawn. Who knew? >>WDI is definitely not the "root of the cancer" - to continue that analogy it is the symptom of the disease that is WDP&R management.<< I like to think more of it as a patient who has cancer and leprosy at the same time. >>The problem has always been that WDI is the at the front line for the fanbase.<< True. They have turned themselves into a group that was once collective and humble, into one that now is made up of a bunch of specific personalities, all with their own groups, book deals, guest spots on podcasts, and of course their own folks who get upset with the idea of an WDI without them. >>It is in a terrible Catch-22 - when a project is successful they rarely get the credit but when it fails (or elements of it fail) then it carries the can.<< Sorry, Lee, I don't agree. They haven't got enough of the blame because THEY are protected by the fans. A sacred cow. Read my last post, but so many of those failures where not an issue of money, but of taste, priority, preference, and a well developed sophistication of what works in a Disney theme park, what will have longevity in a Disney theme park, and what Disney guests want when it comes to dropping money in a Disney theme park. American Idol or expensively themed carnival spinners aren't it. Hopefully, to pick up ON YOUR VERY EXCELLENT POST ABOUT TOM, Tom will figure it out soon if he hasn't already. >>Every single veteran imagineer has had successes and failures - even those held in high esteem like Joe Rohde and Tony Baxter have had stinkers.<< Agreed. >>However that is only part of the story - is Joe responsible for the fact that there was no budget for the "bird of the stick" track switch? It is just never that clear-cut.<< No its not. But then, that doesn't stop Joe or those in WDI to solely take credit for the successes either. Furthermore, I do blame Joe for some of the priorities taken. For some of the places money WAS spent for less of a reason than perhaps the track switch scene. I also completely blame JOE and his team for the non-financial decision to put their star animatronic on display in a position where guests can view him for 3 seconds if they are lucky. It's like if Walt would have had Mr. Lincoln speak for 5 seconds after a 60 minute movie about him. Again, taste, preference, judgment. Money doesn't always factor in. >>However to call out for removals like Eric Jacobson and Tom Fitzgerald isn't fair at all.<< Why? I'll ask the same question that I asked about Al? Why is that the starting point of the assumption? They don't believe in taking responsibility for their output? They don't want to justify their cost to the company relative to other sources of labor or consultants? Why is it not fair? Want to talk about fair? Let's start disussing Walt Disney Feature Animation. >>There are numerous imagineers that have departed that should never have been forced out (like Tim Delaney and Rick Rothschild) but that doesn't mean they are the benchmarks for the next round of cuts.<< No. But they survived where, in my opinion, those more talented folks left.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Would someone please fill me in on ChiMike's history with Imagineering? He sounds like someone who was either laid off or never hired after several interviews. There is a definite bitter edge to his criticisms from a very personal level.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Management is very pleased with Star Tours 2.0, which was his project. I highly doubt they would agree with your statement.>> So one decent refurb is all it takes to make a good Imagineer nowadays?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>Truthfully, I wouldn't be surprised to see Glendale cleaned out of old timers over the next year or two.<< <<Maybe some of my wishes and magical dreams will come true very soon! Better book a vacation post haste and get there so I can wish upon a firework. Skinner, maybe 10 years ago I would be there with you worried about Tony, but at this point whatever will get Fitz, Jacobsen, et al. out the door will do ten-fold the good Al's departure might. WDI has been at the root of the cancer that has inflicted the U.S. park experience in the last 15 years. With all the layoffs at WDI during that same time period, for the most part, it was the wrong people either leaving or being shown the door. To me, this has lend itself to the many expensive disasters they have wreaked on the company and its customers.>> I am so conflicted that I almost (hey, I said 'almost') don't wish to comment. Part of it stems from my firm and well-founded belief that Disney's P&R issues and where WDI fits in is a chicken and egg argument. There are so many things WDI has done over the past 10-15 years that I find fault in concept, budget, execution and delivery/results. Yet, nothing gets done without P&R's executive blessing. So, at the end of the day what do you have? A blame game. Is Everest troubled because of Joo Rohde or in spite of him? Is the 'new' Fantasyland going to be largely window-dressing and not address some of MK's most serious issues because of Eric Jacobson or in spite him? Is Star Tours redo's very lukewarm reception in O-Town (fanbois, bloggers. podcasters aside ... the queue tells the tale) because of Tom Fitzgerald or in spite of him? Rohde, Jacobson, Fitzgerald do nothing without approval. If they are the root of the cancer as Mike says (and I again agree, but only partially), then who is responsible for them and their projects? A fish rots from the head down. ... It's why I am not at all pleased with Disney's direction under The Weatherman. But so long as ESPN keeps churning out huge profits and Disney can expand globally in multiple business units and lousy movies like PoC 4 can bring in over a billion at the world-wide box office and people keep buying Cars merchandise by the bucket load, well ... Wall Street will keep giving its approval and Iger will keep steering the ship in the same direction. I agree with Mike that a lot of the wrong people have been shown the door in Glendale over the past 15 years. I agree that some of the people who work there on huge projects are simply not that talented. But I also believe some are being hamstrung by corporate on everything from budgets -- yes, WDI can spend like there's no tomorrow on the wrong things, but some cases they simply aren't given enough to begin with or it goes on everything from trips around the globe for props to pricey lunches etc -- to what types of projects they are allowed to pursue and using what technologies/ride systems etc to present the show/tell the story in. I've heard that Al was basically forced out, and he is being allowed to remain on as a 'consultant' to avoid a very large severance. That for all intents and purposes, Al is no longer with TWDC effective immediately. That this is simply Tom's first step in 'putting his stamp' on P&R. I've heard that Tom wants to 'undo' much of the centralization/One Disney Walmarted World of Disney that you can see on everything from shopping bags to menus. If that were the case, then I'd be one very happy Spirit. But I have my doubts ... Tom is going to simply undo much of the work Jay Rasulo (who only remains as the Company's CFO!) has been doing for much of the last decade?!?! Think about it. Does that make sense to you? And, if so, what does that say about the job Iger is doing? He lets one man act as a wrecking crew for P&R and just as he's finished establishing a worldwide cabal of execs who owe their positions to him, he moves that man to head of the coffers of the entire company? And now, he folks on the inside are telling me the successor (who held the CFO role prior to a role reversal) wants to 'rip up' (direct quote) the work of his said predecessor, who again is still a hugely important figure at TWDC?!?! I am just very confused by it. And more convinced than ever that Disney tends to just bounce around aimlessly like a ship in a storm. I want to believe in Tom. I want to believe he can right P&R, and by connection WDI as well. But I'm left with the feeling that they have no idea what they are doing. And I've had that feeling for a VERY long time as they've undermined the value of their products and diminished the cache of their BRAND. Hey, I got an idea ... let's ask Thomas Smith about this on The Disney Parks Blog!
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I've tried, but I just can't be that excited or interested in the goings on behind the scenes at Disney. I don't even know who most of these people are.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Oh where to begin.....>> How about the beginning? Lee MacDonald came into the world on ... ;-) <<The writing has been on the wall for pretty much the whole of this year. It became apparent as early as January that he was being shoved out. He wasn't invited to meetings like he used to be. He wasn't traveling the globe like he has done since his promotion back in November 2005. He didn't join the junket to see TDR's operations post-earthquake like I'd expected.>> Any truth that Disney was growing uncomfortable over the time he was spending on his church-building campaign ... or his messy divorce? How about 'rumors' about Staggs desiring a 'restructuring' in P&R is simply being done to preface another mass round of layoffs like a few years ago? While I'm tossing questions out ... why do I keep hearing rumors that both RSRs at DCA and MK's new mine train ride have 'significant' issues that WDI should have been on top of? <<I've absolutely nothing personal against Al. He is a charming guy - warm, friendly and personable. He has a great sense of humor. However he is a puppet - all he ever did was carry out Rasulo's bidding (hence his internal nickname as the flying monkey). He was a decent operator but anything outside of how to open and close a park was way beyond his skillset. He was deeply uncomfortable in creative meetings.>> Most P&R execs are. Does Erin Wallace come off like someone with a creative (or intellectual) mind? How about Meg Crofton? Or Karl Holz? or ... It takes a certain special kind of spirit to understand business and the creative side (YOU should know that more than most anyone here!) I haven't seen many at TWDC that can see the entire picture. Matt Ouimet certainly could ... oh, I hear his old lieutenant Greg Emmer may join him at Cedar. How interesting would it be in 2012 if the former #'s 1-2 at DLR as well as the top Imagineer for DL were all working for Cedar and that little chicken and pie shack down they run down in Buena Park. ;-) <<I've got a certain amount of respect for aspects of how he has run WDW Co. in the past. His handling of the post-9/11 fallout was exceptional - he made a lot of quick decisions, communicated strongly with CMs and kept the place afloat. Those were tough decisions but ultimately the right ones. The problem was that he was a slave to the income statement - always squeezing costs at the operational level.>> He did what was asked of him. There's a reason some people have remained at Disney and continued to move up after 'humble' starts; folks like Weiss, Wallace and Kalogridis to name three. And that's because they all play politics well enough to survive, while still being able to spout Walt platitudes since they've been with the company so long. <<Plain and simple - Tom hates the Rasulo organizational structure at WDP&R. Worldwide Ops is at the heart of the disfunction at the division. WW Ops is the poster child for organizational creep - it has kept adding headcount and trying to meddle in local operations. Its vision for Disney Parks has some value but trying to grap power for local operators who know their audience better (and know that it is different in say, Anaheim than Orlando) is ridiculous. Tom has been coy about his plans for WW Ops but I suspect it will be disbanded. I would wager that some elements will remain (Products and Services that help to create synergistic entertainment product like HSM) but this shoehorning concepts into every park may disappear. Yesterday was a chink of light in the gloomy skies above Burbank. This is about Tom putting his mark on WDP&R and beginning to carefully unpick the Rasulo legacy. I've always been a TOS supporter and he went even further up in my perception of him yesterday.>> I truly hope you're right, but I am gonna err on being cautious. I can't imagine Iger is going to let him change all that Rasulo has done because the whole point is to homogenize the chain of parks and bland them down. You don't visit DL or EPCOT or DAK or DLP ... you visit Disney Parks and you do so for the same exact experiences, right?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It's also a reminder that anyone over the age of 55 is considered done by Disney standards of today (Iger excepted naturally!)>> <<I'm not sure that is a fair comment really. I would never accuse the Company of being ageist. I've never seen any example of the Company removing from an office an individual because he/she was "over the hill".>> Age absolutely factors into things. Forcing Al out at 57 saves Disney big bucks. But that's not what my statement really meant. Disney just seems to gently push people out when they have years (often decades) of productive time left. How many Disney execs do you know over 60? How about over 62? 65?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Naturally I vehemently disagree. WDI is nothing but a creative pawn in the power struggle with corporate. It's voice at the table has been weakened over the years as successive chairmen have sought to collect power at the center. WDI is definitely not the "root of the cancer" - to continue that analogy it is the symptom of the disease that is WDP&R management.>> I do think I am more with Lee on this one, Mike. Power and decision making funnels downward ... and management has the power to ultimately do great things or crappy ones. <<The problem has always been that WDI is the at the front line for the fanbase. It is in a terrible Catch-22 - when a project is successful they rarely get the credit but when it fails (or elements of it fail) then it carries the can. Every single veteran imagineer has had successes and failures - even those held in high esteem like Joe Rohde and Tony Baxter have had stinkers. However that is only part of the story - is Joe responsible for the fact that there was no budget for the "bird of the stick" track switch? It is just never that clear-cut.>> I would agree. I'd also state that Disney is largely wasting talents like Rohde and Baxter, while paying then large six-figure salaries. Of course, do you need them to build the kind of product that Disney seems to be pushing for? People that have led teams that created amazing parks such as DAK and DLP seem to be capable of more than designing fancy meet-greet-and-gropes or adding a second Dumbo and such ... yet, neither guy is doing almost anything as Disney begins construction on its first park in mainland China. Curious. But what do I know? <<However to call out for removals like Eric Jacobson and Tom Fitzgerald isn't fair at all. There are numerous imagineers that have departed that should never have been forced out (like Tim Delaney and Rick Rothschild) but that doesn't mean they are the benchmarks for the next round of cuts.>> I doubt Eric or Tom is in any danger right now. I fully expect Tony to announce his upcoming 'resignation' at D23. And I think Joe isn't far behind.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>There's a reason some people have remained at Disney and continued to move up after 'humble' starts; folks like Weiss, Wallace and Kalogridis to name three.<< Don't forget Erin is only where she is today because of her father. Dan isn't the only one. If it's an issue, and I'm not sure it is, she should come under the same view. >> Matt Ouimet certainly could ... oh, I hear his old lieutenant Greg Emmer may join him at Cedar. How interesting would it be in 2012 if the former #'s 1-2 at DLR as well as the top Imagineer for DL were all working for Cedar and that little chicken and pie shack down they run down in Buena Park. ;-)<< Matt was a great president and his tenure was perfect timing, however Greg was the real brains of the operation. While I didn't agree with everything he did at MK @ WDW, he really brought the operational discipline that MK @ WDW had in the nineties over to DL. I think the WORLD of Greg and was very sad to see him leave DL.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <<I've tried, but I just can't be that excited or interested in the goings on behind the scenes at Disney. I don't even know who most of these people are.>> That's mostly how I feel.
