Originally Posted By skinnerbox <Whoa, whoa, whoa! I think this investment is everybit as foolhardy as the next person (if not more), but I don't think the cost is anywhere near $2 billion yet.>> The system is still rife with bugs and not exactly ready for prime time. Once all is said and done and the bugs are mostly worked out, the final tab will indeed be about $2 BILLION.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Not if you can sell said technology, which I expect Disney to do if this thing catches on.>> To who? Who would need this type of tech when it is so specific to the integrated resort industry? In addition the tech involves a whole hodgepodge of existing IPR, new IPR and third-party tech. I'm not sure how you'd be able to establish a market price for the licence.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Whoa, whoa, whoa! I think this investment is everybit as foolhardy as the next person (if not more), but I don't think the cost is anywhere near $2 billion yet.>> It is getting there. It is already late and over-budget. Accenture are having a field day with overruns and scope creep at the moment and will continue to milk it until it is stable.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 My point about the $4 a person spending with the bands was obviously hypothetical. Not everyone will do it but some people will spend more than $4 a person. I currently work in an industry that depends and spends a lot of money on getting people to impulse buy. You don't think Disney isnt doing the same? I was talking in generalities. No, I don't think the AK does 40,000 people a day, but having working in mgmt I can tell you that when you average all the parks over a year year period you are getting close to that general number. Add the hotels, pool bars, gift shops, water parks and you get the idea that this can potentially be a gold mind for Disney. Think about that person who is sitting at the pool, has a couple of drinks, defenses get lowered so they order some more drinks and food and you can see how the MagicBand could encourage spending. And we are just talking WDW at the moment. What happens when it goes world wide. And we haven't talked about the fact that Disney will now know what you bought, where you bought it and so on. So you buy some princess stuff. Now Disney knows that your or someone you know is into princesses. Now Disney can target you in emails, resort info, discounts and videos. This is huge. I think if anyone doesn't see this bigger picture your a little niave. Disney isn't spending this sort of money so you can be happy about getting a Soarin FP
Originally Posted By skinnerbox << Think about that person who is sitting at the pool, has a couple of drinks, defenses get lowered so they order some more drinks and food and you can see how the MagicBand could encourage spending.>> How is that any different from charging to your room key? Disney, like other resorts, has always had the ability to take advantage of guests who are poor at tracking their purchases. <<And we haven't talked about the fact that Disney will now know what you bought, where you bought it and so on.>> Again, Disney has always been able to track this info through room key charges. Plus, thanks to the invention of smart credit card technology, they can track your purchases as a non-resort guest. So MagicBand isn't bringing anything new to this table. << I think if anyone doesn't see this bigger picture your a little niave. Disney isn't spending this sort of money so you can be happy about getting a Soarin FP>> I'm not naive. I know precisely why Disney is investing close to $2 BILLION for this crap. It's basically the same reason why the GOP controlled state governments are instituting unnecessary voter I.D. laws to restrict minority voting within gerrymandered congressional districts. It's the only way they can stay viable as a political party in the future with the shrinking white demographic. Just as the GOP is losing ground to the growing minority demographic that mostly votes against them, Disney is losing ground to their theme park competitors, like Uni w/Potter and SW w/Antarctica. So now they're attempting to stack the deck in their favor by using NextGen to make it more attractive to stay on their property (i.e., more difficult to stay elsewhere) than build a new theme park or seriously refurbish the existing ones. Disney thinks it's a better use of their investment dollars. Personally, I think they've lost their collective minds. YMMV.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Again, Disney has always been able to track this info through room key charges.<< Theoretically they've always had this ability, but from the sounds of it, the existing system isn't set up to make this an easy process and/or nobody pays any attention to it. While it seems like it would be relatively simple to upgrade what's already there, it's a lot more fun to spend big money on some flashy technology and ugly wristbands I'm not sure how your political allusion makes any sense, but your final conclusion is correct: Disney is doing this to encourage more guests to stay on property so they can charge them higher room rates (if the hotels have high enough occupancy, why not?), keep them in Disney's parks every day, and eating 3+ meals at Disney's restaurants. To someone somewhere looking at a spreadsheet, it makes sense, but I'm not sure it translates to the way that real people vacation.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "To who? Who would need this type of tech when it is so specific to the integrated resort industry?" Last time I checked Disney only operated a half dozen destination resorts and handful of cruise ships. Therefore, why couldn't this system be adapted to be used at mega-resort hotels, cruise ships, theme parks and destination resorts around the world? Obviously I'm speculating about what Disney will ultimately do with the tech, but it's kind of naive to think that they'd simply sit on it for their own use without at least considering licensing it to outside parties.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Obviously I'm speculating about what Disney will ultimately do with the tech, but it's kind of naive to think that they'd simply sit on it for their own use without at least considering licensing it to outside parties.>> Naive? Don't think so. Disney have never licensed a core intellectual property for other parties to use - never. It goes against the grain of their zealous control over the brand. I can't see that course of action being reversed with this product. WDP&R believes it operates in every single market - either with a local product or by targeting guests in those locations so DLP's catchment area is the whole of Europe & Russia. There is absolutely no chance that they would licence IPR for a core product of the business unit to other operators just for some royalty revenue when it could level the playing field. I think it is naive to think that Disney would allow others to play with this tech.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Disney have never licensed a core intellectual property for other parties to use - never.<< I like playing Devil's Advocate so... What about the PeopleMover that they built at the Houston airprot? It's not exactly the same thing as leasing out software, but it certainly seems like that was done with Disney's IPR. Then again, Disney is a very different company with very different priorities than it was a few decades ago when they built it
Originally Posted By leemac <<What about the PeopleMover that they built at the Houston airprot?>> I'm not 100% familiar with the history. I do know there was a WEDWay Transportation Company that was tasked with rolling out transportation options based on WED's various patents. I don't think they got any further than Houston's though. I think it did need rebuilding only ten years into operation and that Disney wasn't involved in that rebuild.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Disney have never licensed a core intellectual property for other parties to use - never." Of course they have. What about all the character licenses that Disney has worldwide, many dating back to the explosion of Mickey merchandise back in the 1930s? The most obvious example of Disney licensing in the Parks division is is OLC and Tokyo Disneyland.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Of course they have. What about all the character licenses that Disney has worldwide, many dating back to the explosion of Mickey merchandise back in the 1930s? The most obvious example of Disney licensing in the Parks division is is OLC and Tokyo Disneyland.>> Alright - I thought we were solely discussed theme park IPR so I should have been more specific. Consumer Products exists to exploit IPR because TWDC can't do it on its own - there is no cannibalization of their own sales as beyond the limited reach of the Disney Stores it can't get out to consumers. I don't know of a single instance where WDP&R IPR has been sold on to a third party - not one. All of the patents relating to Audio-Animatronics, bespoke ride systems etc. are held and retained by WDI even if there is no intention of using the tech. It is jealously guarded and defended.
Originally Posted By leemac <<The most obvious example of Disney licensing in the Parks division is is OLC and Tokyo Disneyland.>> TDL came about because: 1) Walt Disney Productions had no financing or capital to do it on its own - everything was being diverted to EPCOT Center 2) There was no cannibalization because Disney didn't even have a field office in Asia at the time let alone operations.
Originally Posted By dagobert Isn't DLP based on a licencing agreement as well? I know TWDC has a 51% interest in the DLP operating companies, but in the Annual Reports they are always talking about licencing agreements? I guess it's the same with HKDL and SDL.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Just admit you were wrong. lol>> Haha - you don't know me but I'm never wrong. Never. )))
Originally Posted By leemac <<the Annual Reports they are always talking about licencing agreements?>> Unless TWDC owns 100% of the final product then there will always be a licensing agreement. The Company gets a nice chunk of royalties and management fees for providing their brands.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Exactly Dagobert. Disney has licensed its intellectual property for decades with all sorts of things, including its theme parks. Of course this doesn't automatically mean that MyMagic+ will be something that Disney will offer to other parties, but the potential is certainly there.
Originally Posted By leemac Look there is a massive difference between licensing your entire business model - i.e. a theme park to a third party and licensing a specific IPR. Disney had no choice but to go down the third party route with TDL, EDL, HKDL and SDL - no choice. It is entirely a different matter to license a specific product (like NGE) to a third party that might use it for other intellectual properties whether that be a hotel, resort or theme park.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Either I'm not understanding something or you have a very narrow definition of IPR. Without consulting a dictionary I would assume that intellectual property in Disney's case would include a broad range of things from MyMagic+ to cast member costumes to recipes served in its restaurants. I don't know enough about this to argue either way about Disney's long term financial goals with MyMagic+, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to wonder about the potential for some "real world" applications outside of Disney's theme parks.
