Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <This is a pricey neighborhood for sure. With prices ranging from $1.8 to $8 million, does this include access to the parks?> All residence receive a 2 1/2% discount on admission price to the parks. (I don't know that, I'm just being snarky)
Originally Posted By wahooskipper If they decided to build 450 homes ya'll don't think they would sell 450 homes? They are building the Four Seasons because the Super Rich would never lower themselves to staying in the Grand Floridian. I'm telling you...they'd sell all 450 homes.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer I don't know....buying a permanent home is different that a stay in a hotel. Does Disney really have that many obsessed enough fans that are affluent enough tombuy a house on property?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Yes. There are obsessed people of modest incomes who will pack up and move to be closer to the Mouse House. You will have rich people buy those homes as 2nd, 3rd, 4th homes just to have their own place to stay when they come to town. I never thought the timeshare concept would take off at Disney. Look at it now.
Originally Posted By leemac <<...wait...didn't they do this with Celebration? ...I thought that failed....>> Celebration was a huge success. We sold about $600m worth of residential property during TWDC's ownership period. The town's population was about 8,000 when the final parcel of land downtown was sold off in '04. The fact is that the company didn't want to run the town after the first phase target was reached. Control of the town's board passed to the residents and TWDC began to sell of the remaining assets. A venture capital firm bought the last 18 acres or so that included the retail/dining downtown. The town continues to attract a substantial premium over the rest of Orlando and although house prices are down like all of central Florida the decline has not been as severe as elsewhere in the city.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Does Disney really have that many obsessed enough fans that are affluent enough tombuy a house on property?>> Yup - some of the most affluent areas of central Florida attract non-permanent residents who may spend at most a few months a year down there - all you need are golf courses and water and you can build an exclusive enclave. Just look at places like Lake Nona and Isleworth. The concierge services and shared facilities at the Four Seasons will make this very attractive to high net worth individuals.
Originally Posted By leemac <<So, will they rent these out when they don't sell, like they do DVCs?>> No - the build-out is contingent on sales so you won't see Golden Oak building all of those properties unless there are committed buyers.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>> Celebration was a huge success. We sold about $600m worth of residential property during TWDC's ownership period. The town's population was about 8,000 when the final parcel of land downtown was sold off in '04. The fact is that the company didn't want to run the town after the first phase target was reached. Control of the town's board passed to the residents and TWDC began to sell of the remaining assets. A venture capital firm bought the last 18 acres or so that included the retail/dining downtown. The town continues to attract a substantial premium over the rest of Orlando and although house prices are down like all of central Florida the decline has not been as severe as elsewhere in the city<<< Interesting. I just don't understand why Disney would want to sell it off. That implies that they didn't get the correct results from it.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Yup - some of the most affluent areas of central Florida attract non-permanent residents who may spend at most a few months a year down there - all you need are golf courses and water and you can build an exclusive enclave. Just look at places like Lake Nona and Isleworth.<<< I could see that with 30 homes...450 is pushing it a bit, I think.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Interesting. I just don't understand why Disney would want to sell it off. That implies that they didn't get the correct results from it.>> That's not how things work - just because it was sold doesn't mean it wasn't a success. The company opted not to do the rest of the build-out (we originally thought that Celebration could reach about 12,000 inhabitants). Don't forget that once the build-out was complete the revenue stream is limited to rent from non-residential properties and some ancillary sales. The real revenue is in the sale of residential property and once the decision was taken that there wasn't the appetite (either commercially or by the company) then it is game over. Just wait and see with Golden Oak - the market research suggests that there is significant demand for high-value property in high-value locations in central Florida.
Originally Posted By Manfried Oh great, lets give the whacked out obsessed Disney fans a place to live on property. Does this mean someone from Miceage will be moving down here now?
Originally Posted By leobloom Golden Oak sure is a bland name for such a ***!!m*a*g*i*c*a*l!!*** place.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Don't forget that once the build-out was complete the revenue stream is limited to rent from non-residential properties and some ancillary sales. The real revenue is in the sale of residential property and once the decision was taken that there wasn't the appetite (either commercially or by the company) then it is game over.<<< So...Disney essentially milked the concept for what it's worth and got rid of it? This is interesting, leemac, I've never really gotten deep into the history of Celebration.
Originally Posted By leemac <<So...Disney essentially milked the concept for what it's worth and got rid of it?>> Sort of. You could chose your plot in Celebration and then chose the house to go on top of that. There were multiple models with a series of add-ons like granny flats and through-out carpeting. A 3-bed 2.5-bath Savannah model would have set you back about $245k in '97 - a premium of about 33% on the sq ft price for the market at the time. Disney's development arm took out municipal bonds to develop Celebration - and residents paid for that debt. In addition they had to pick up all of the title insurance and the state and county transfer taxes - usually a seller picks up half of those costs but not in Celebration. There were also homeowner association fees and maintenance fees (garbage collection). So Disney pocketed money from the sale of the property. A home builder actually constructed the houses (Weekley Homes in most cases if I recall) and they even paid commissions to Disney for the privilege. In later years those house builders took on their own marketing and sales activities instead of Disney's Celebration Realty entity. So when the lots were all sold Disney wasn't making any more money from residential sales. Most of the fees collected post-sale were diverted to associations that were run as not-for-profit like the homeowners' association. So revenue was restricted to commercial activities like the structures downtown and lots like Celebration Place (which is largely leased by TWDC - WDW Media Relations and DCL are run out of there). So when you say that "Disney got rid of it" that isn't quite true as Disney didn't own it really - the homeowners owned their properties so Disney was left with just some undeveloped land and the leasehold commercial property. If you are into urban planning then there are some good books on Celebration (although none are great). It was a fantastic project to work on - the place is full of architectural gems from the leading lights of world architecture.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Celebration was a huge success << That's exactly what I heard. Properties don't stay on the market very long either.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> No - the build-out is contingent on sales so you won't see Golden Oak building all of those properties unless there are committed buyers. << Have you put your deposit down yet Lee Mac?
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Interesting. I just don't understand why Disney would want to sell it off. That implies that they didn't get the correct results from it. << For the same reason they are selling off land for future commercial development. Make your money, and move on. It's smart business. It limits your liability in large developments, while you reap the initial profits.
