Originally Posted By hopemax >It's interesting to see complaints here about how a trip to WDW is becoming less affordable, and yet in other threads I have seen complaints that the company has gone too far with discounting.< I don't see them as mutually exclusive. And in fact, I think one feeds the other. The general public picks up a WDW travel company brochure, visits the website, calls CRO...and gets quoted the rack/gate prices...and plans their trip elsewhere. Disney looks at the numbers, panics and then we see all the schemes. Those "in the know" have all learned by now, wait for the panic, then wait...keep waiting for the BIGGER panic...then book. The higher the rack/gate prices go, the more Disney becomes a turnoff for those not "in the know." And the more patience those "in the know" are exhibiting. I'd rather see a price that is less than rack/gate prices are currently (but more than the discounted rate) and not discount. You know, the way it used to be.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Which basically says to me that Disney (at least the resorts)is no longer a premium product.>> Sadly, in many ways they are not. I see hope ... in the rehabs at the Contemp, Poly and WL. The more high end bedding, the giant flat screen LCDs, the expensive sinks and showers (at least in the Contemp rooms). But, overall, no Disney is no longer a premium brand. Here's a giant hint: premium hotel chains don't put Ivory soap in their rooms any more than a fine restaurant doesn't serve Wonder Bread with dinner.
Originally Posted By hopemax ^^^Well, the Hilton's Waldorf-Astoria at Bonnet Creek will open eventually. I would think that would help. Although, a couple weeks ago we were at a Holiday Inn Express in Flagstaff, AZ with triple sheeting and I got all upset at Disney. $99...free breakfast...and triple sheeting.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^And when that Waldorf-Astoria opens, Disney is going to lose a very large chunk of affluent guests (who are already down on the product). They'll pay less than for a room at GF, I'm sure, and they won't have a 13-inch TV (yes, that's the original standard TVs that have never been replaced) ... no likely 43-inch plasmas with Bose stereo surround sound systems from what I've heard. And the triple sheeting thing again is one of my biggest pet peeves. No premium hotel chain would just put a basic sheet (usually not even tucked in correctly), blanket and comforter on a bed. When Holiday Inn Express can triple sheet you have to ask why Disney it to cheap to do it. I know they did at the Beach Club when it first opened. But the only deluxe Disney resort (other than Swan and Dolphin, which have the best beds at WDW but are Starwood) I have ever remembered getting triple sheeting was the Contemporary Tower. I may have gotten it at the GF, but don't remember ... I do remember the filthy, hair-covered bed-liner though. Disney has gotten some awful advice from its consultants and worse decisions by the execs. The Ritz Carlton Grande Lakes is $199 this month. Do you think they triple sheet? Do you think they have Ivory soap? Do you think they have cheap, white towels? Do you think they have pools that are closed daily because someone's brat used it as a toilet? Do you think they pay their employees the same as Disney? Just some questions to think about.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Oh, and one other thing on the triple sheeting deal. And an important one. It's a hygiene one ... just ask yourself when you're standing in line for Splash Mountain if you really want to sleep in the same bed, with the same bedding touching your skin that touched that fat guy picking his nose in front of you.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "I'd gladly pay twice as much for my AP if that meant a return to cleaner parks, more entertainment, less shuttered shops and new attractions." Amen to that. I'm happy to pay for the entertainment, maintenance and cleanliness. If the parks keep trying to cut costs to compete with the Joneses, I'm out.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Those "in the know" have all learned by now, wait for the panic, then wait...keep waiting for the BIGGER panic...then book. The higher the rack/gate prices go, the more Disney becomes a turnoff for those not "in the know." And the more patience those "in the know" are exhibiting.>> Back in 2001, I was going on vaction in October and decided that with all the hasseles going on with plane travel I would vacation somewhere within driving range of where I lived ( I live in metro Atlanta, Georgia ). One of my buddys was scheduled to vacation at WDW so invited a bunch of us to go down there are the same time. Another member of my party decided to go and had to wait till his employeer gave him the go to take vacation time. Sooo I unfortunately had to call Disney at the last minute ( one week out ) to get rooms. Here in Atlanta on the news and in the news papers it was being accounced that rooms were plentiful at WDW as many people we not flying and therefor NOT going to WDW. So anyway I call Disney to get a room and they tell me most rooms are booked already ( not true ) and that I would have to get one of the expensive rooms at one of the Deluxe resorts ( I always stay at POR ). I explain that I'm in Atlanta I know that rooms are empty. The Disney travel person explains that I'm calling at the last minute to get a room and therefor that one of the reasons for the upscale ( not verbatium conversation but you get the idea ). Disney wouldn't budge! So I told them fine I'll stay somewhere else. So I booked a room at the Marriott Courtyard in DTD instead and saved the money. Disney doesn't hold the monopoly of hotel rooms in Orlando. There are a lot of choices availabe for the consumer. We can and do take our money elsewhere when we need to. It really wasn't that inconvient staying at the Marriott Couryard ( now a Holiday Inn ) in DTD. My buddy who always goes to WDW in October goes down in his RV and stays at Ft Wilderness Campground. At Ft Wilderness they give you two car passes; one for your RV and the second for the vehicle your towing. And since my buddy doesn't tow a vehicle he gives me his other pass. So I can easily drive and park at any theme park on property as well as get into the campground and park at his site. That vacation was SOOOO WILD.... I just rmember drinking constantly!!! Nothing like getting snookered before entering the MK at 9 AM.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Which basically says to me that Disney (at least the resorts)is no longer a premium product<< Absolutely. And that is why I have said that Disney needs to get back to pricing themseleves as a premium product in all areas of the company. Including the Walmart & Disney store wares. Animated sequels are another example. The have cheapened the brand to sell for volume. In reality if WDW is going to make the resorts a premium product they unfortunately have to price them higher first and then follow through with higher standards. If they take the money and run, so to speak, without improving things they will have to lower the prices again.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>I'd rather see a price that is less than rack/gate prices are currently (but more than the discounted rate) and not discount. You know, the way it used to be. << And hopemax that to me I would consider raising their prices. The rack rates as they are now are artificially high, unrealistic baselines. I understand why they are so. It would be great to see them reduced slightly with no discounts. That would be a world of improvement, I just don't think Disney can kick the discounting habit. I think they depend too heavily on it for promotions and for maximizing capacity. So, if they must continue to discount for groups and AAA and whoever else, then keep raising those rack rate baselines. Anything helps. In 2000 you could stay at the Polynesian concierge for $210 a night on discount. You can't even get that rate for a standard room now. They are raising rates, just not in the simple fashion you and I would prefer.
Originally Posted By a1stav OK I think Disney is out of line here. If you compare to the other Orlando parks Disney cost quite a bit more. I feel that all of the parks in the area offer a similar product and service. Bush offers cleaner and better maintained parks than Disney IMO. Here is a run down. Bush two park pass (5 days) $89.95 Universal two park 5 day pass $99.95 That is a total of $189.90 for a ten day four park purchase. Disney charges $216 for a 10 day base pass. Even if you only use seven days at Universal and Bush for $189.90 you are still cheaper than Disney's 7 day pass at $210
Originally Posted By a1stav ^^^^ I should make that more clear. The Bush pass includes Bush Gardens and Seaworld.
Originally Posted By ChiMike And you would be able to hop with those, so add another $45 or $50 (whichever it is) to those Disney prices.
Originally Posted By ChiMike And if you time it right would get a free 5 day child's ticket to Universal.
Originally Posted By fkurucz I couldn't see spending 5 days at Universal. Two is enough. 3 years ago we were able to do both parks in one day, thanks to a little rain in the morning (and it was a Sunday).
Originally Posted By ChiMike I agree. The most uninterrupted time I have ever spent at Universal 2 nights 3 days. And even with that it was really taking my time and hanging out at the pool, doing recreation, pool bar, etc.
Originally Posted By a1stav I think that 3 days at Universal is just right. So a 3 day Universal hopper pass is $99. A three day Disney non-hopper pass is $192. That is a BIG difference! Now it is true that at Disney you can visit three different parks over the three days and at Universal you can only visit two. But 93 bucks more! BTW, I love Disneyworld and am leaving next week for there. I got the Magic Your Way seven day pass at the old price and the free dining. I feel that is a good deal. But I can assure you my next Orlando trip will be to Universal and Bush.
Originally Posted By BlazesOfFire Busch Gardens is in Tampa...so while you may be able to park hop with the Universal ticket, I dont think you can do SeaWorld and Busch Gardens in one day. Now only talking about one day stays as an example here... A one day ticket for Busch Gardens is $57.95 for an out-of-state adult. I love Busch Gardens and am a passholder for it (As I am a local) but it does not have near as much entertainment as Disney. It has some great rides and one awesome show, but if I entered the park at 9 when it opened, I would be done by 12, and I did this last Thursday while my friend (who has never gone before so we wanted to see everything) and I did all the roller coasters (Montu 3x) and a show. Then I was bored. For $9 more, an out of state adult guest can go to Disney for the day, and have so much to see and do. I know bigger isnt better, but there is something for everyone and surely will keep you there longer than 3 hours. A few times, after Disney has raised their prices, other neighborhood theme parks raised theirs too. So who knows, we may see an increase at Universal and SeaWorld soon.
Originally Posted By a1stav ^^^ A fair comparason for Bush Gardens would be AK. I would say that AK has the edge but I don't think it is worth $10 more.
