Originally Posted By believe just drop your friends off at the McDonald's across the street, probably easier...
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I think the monorail idea is a waste of money and doesn't really work that well in providing good transit to the Resort Area." Monorails always seem awkward, inefficient and slow to me. A rapid bus line or light rail system would make more sense. Also, connecting DLR to the high speed rail station only addresses one part of the issue. What about visitors coming from local airports or those who live in other parts of OC? There needs to be some kind of pubic transportation alternative to driving to and from DLR besides a connection to the high speed rail terminal.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones If the proposed Anaheim monorail actually went to the Esplanade or the Disneyland Hotel, I'd say, hey, go for it. But I think that if the closest the Anaheim monorail is going to get to Disneyland is GardenWalk, a more flexible rapid bus system that serves far more people for far less money is way more practical. You could even put a rapid bus route that stops once every mile on Harbor Blvd. This could be done relatively soon, allowing guests and employees alike to take Metrolink and Amtrak to the park. (As a side note, I hope that if public transit gets more popular, that they add 1AM train departures so that people can stay late at Disneyland and not feel like they have to go home early). Also, keep in mind that this monorail is only going to go about 35 MPH. It won't be that much faster. I anticipate arguments that tourists won't want to ride with the common folk on city buses, but whatever. I can't speak to those kinds of feelings. I think if marketed properly and made easy to use, a rapid bus on Katella would be a hit with Disneyland guests and employees alike, as well as the general public, who may or may not be using it to go to Disneyland.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I anticipate arguments that tourists won't want to ride with the common folk on city buses, but whatever." Those people are the ones who will never ride OC public transit no matter how efficient, sexy, or inexpensive its made. That's what rental cars, parking garages, and motor coaches are for.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Monorails always seem awkward, inefficient and slow to me>> If you've only had experience with the DLR system, that's understandable. The DL monorail isn't full-sized, which definitely makes it all of those things. Even the WDW system isn't as efficient as it could be. Again, you have to go to TDR to see how good a monorail can be. Aside from the look of the trains (which most find awkward) they are a model of efficiency,,,just like every train in Japan.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I've ridden monorails at both US Disney resorts, Seattle, and Vegas (the new system not the WDW hand-me-down). Compared to rapid transit systems like BART, light rail, and automated peoplemovers found at airports like JFK and SFO the monorails I've ridden just don't compare for real world purposes. They're nice for amusement parks though, and I'm sure TDL's is fine. Still, there is something about monorails that seems more hype than substance.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Spokker, check out the Anaheim city website. The planning commission has already ruled out rapid bus service, bus trolleys in dedicated lanes, or any type of trolley, train or bus that travels at street level. They really seem intent on an elevated train of some sort, either modern monorail (Hitachi makes them now, based on original Alweg designs), or some sort of Personal Rapid Transport or peoplemover system. But it's going to be up on an elevated track for the whole route, that seems to be very important to the Anaheim planners working on this project.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Hans, the Tokyo monorail is wider and more substantial than the new Vegas or even the old but still jumbo-sized Seattle version from the World's Fair. If memory of my recent trip on Bart a few months ago is accurate, the Tokyo monorail is about the width of those trains, but with a bit taller headroom. The Tokyo Disney Resort monorail, AKA "Resort Liner", is not a particularly pretty thing to look at, but inside it is very big and roomy. Of course they tricked it out with Mickey kitsch, groovy upholstery, and even little museum exhibits in the corners of the cars, but it could also be set up for more high capacity commuting. Still, the very long route the Tokyo Resort Liner takes makes me think it's not much shorter than the proposed Anaheim route from ARTIC to Disneyland and the Convention Center.
Originally Posted By believe The Toyko monorails seem to be a "real" - transportation system. DLs trains are more amusement park standard, and WDW are hybrid type (between real world and amusement park). That said, I think the DL trains would be the most fun, though not as practical. Toyko would be the least fun because they are too real world.
Originally Posted By believe DLR needs a fun, gimmicky, yet efficient transport system such as People mover, Monorail, moving sidewalks, etc for it to be effective and people will want to ride. Buses just won't cut it. It's too common and real world.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Spokker, check out the Anaheim city website." I did. I've attended public meetings on the project and have provided input. The rapid bus project was an OCTA project, not an Anaheim one, though. That project has since been put on hold due to the state's budget issues. Luckily the governor has signed legislation recently that would prevent further cuts at the OCTA. Though recent cuts would not be undone anytime soon. "But it's going to be up on an elevated track for the whole route, that seems to be very important to the Anaheim planners working on this project." It's also very important to the Anaheim planners and the contractors who are going to benefit from the project. I generally have no problems with contractors benefiting, but I would also like to see a greater benefit to the city, and the county, as a whole for precious tax revenue. The Tokyo Disney monorail is very nice. We used it extensively at our stay there. Was it financed by the Oriental Land Company or the government?
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "DLR needs a fun, gimmicky, yet efficient transport system such as People mover, Monorail, moving sidewalks, etc for it to be effective and people will want to ride. Buses just won't cut it. It's too common and real world." But the transportation system proposed here is not going to be built in the Disneyland Resort. It's going to be built in the real world, and the real world needs a real world system that benefits not only park guests, but its employees and the general public. This isn't about how you get around Disneyland, but how you get around Anaheim.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Here's the kicker. The rapid bus idea, named Bravo!, could be up and running in relatively short time. It was ready to go, delayed for two years before it was canceled altogether. It was to be funded by an air quality grant (I believe that grant has since been diverted to signal synchronization) and would include routes on Harbor Blvd, Westminster and State College Blvd. A Katella route would have been the next good street for a rapid bus line, in my opinion. The monorail won't happen for a while, if it ever gets funding. Plus all the other things horribly wrong with it. I'm not mad about it or anything. I've had my say in the scoping meetings and that's that. If it happens I'll check it out and enjoy it, but I think there are better options.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<The Toyko monorails seem to be a "real" - transportation system.>> That's because it is. The TDR system is a real rail line, built and operated under the very same regulations as every train in Tokyo, even if the entire system is on TDR property. You can even use the very same "Pasmo" and "Suica" smart cards used on Tokyo trains to pay for the ride.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The monorail won't happen for a while, if it ever gets funding. Plus all the other things horribly wrong with it." You mean like the price tag? I'd love to see a cost analysis comparison between rapid bus, light rail, and monorails that also included construction time. Tax payers in Anaheim and OC should insist on the most efficient and cost effective solution rather than building something just because it looks cool. There is nothing new about monorails in Anaheim.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones At one of the public meetings for this monorail some guy hijacked the presentation and said that, "I DON'T WANT MY TAXPAYER MONEY GOING TO SOME PRIVATE CHOO CHOO FOR DISNEYLAND." and then he stormed out of the room. He has a point, but that's not necessarily my issue with it. Not only are they planning to spend half a billion on a transportation option that will primarily benefit Disneyland and its guests, it's not even a good plan. It's a bad route, wrong technology. Wrong technology because Metro is studying a light rail line down the old Pacific Electric right of way between Los Angeles and Orange County. Inter-county transportation sucks, hampered by the ever present "Orange curtain" that people bought into. Anyway, the ROW comes very close to Disneyland. If you were Anaheim, wouldn't you figure out how to leverage this information to work for the city? If you were the OCTA, would you not leverage this information to work for North Orange County? By selecting monorail or PRT or People Mover for this project, you waste any chance of it being compatible with any future light rail system. You waste a chance to offer a one-seat ride between Los Angeles and Anaheim (Disneyland, Anaheim Stadium, ARTIC). There's an awful bus that takes 2 and a half hours to travel between Downtown LA and Disneyland. I think a well-designed light rail line could turn that into one hour. It often takes an hour and a half for me to drive to LA, though in an hour I will be on Metrolink's Orange County Line which takes about the same amount of time, considering where I'm going.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Spokker, I also attended one of those sessions in downtown Anahaim. But it was one of the more recent ones where they had already ruled out the buses and street trolleys. I also went down the same path you did... I thought why not build a light rail system that starts out as a dedicated ARTIC/DLR/ACC system with just those three stops, but lays infrastructure for an expanded light rail system in the future. For whatever reason, the planners really want this thing up in the air and some sort of unique monorail/PRT technology that won't interface with any other rail system in SoCal.
Originally Posted By believe I think this topic has changed from Resort trans to Public trans. For a resort trans, we need the "cool" yet efficent transport. Marketing is everything. So if you had a "cool" transport from the Toy Story lot (and Garden Walk) to the entrance, people will love it and use it. Why is it that Vegas (ie City Center, Mandalay Bay/Luxor/Excaliber, Circus, Primm at Stateline) can so easily build these automated elevated type trains, yet all DLR gets are buses and trams.?
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "There's an awful bus that takes 2 and a half hours to travel between Downtown LA and Disneyland." It only takes two and a half hours during rush hour. The rest of the time, it's more like an hour and fourty-five minutes to two hours. Either way, I think awful is just about the best word to describe it. It also doesn't run a very reliable schedule (I once waited 50 minutes for a bus to come, when it should have been 5-10min from when I got to the stop), which is something that could be easily fixed with light rail.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "If you were the OCTA, would you not leverage this information to work for North Orange County? By selecting monorail or PRT or People Mover for this project, you waste any chance of it being compatible with any future light rail system." To me that's the only sensible solution. Apparently these people think that Anaheim exists inside some sort of bubble. From what you and TP2000 are saying it appears that there's no chance for DLR to be directly connected to the region's future rail grid without making some kind of transfer between transportation systems. "I think this topic has changed from Resort trans to Public trans." They are one and the same.
