Originally Posted By Dabob2 <They are one and the same.> I don't think so. Getting from ARTIC to DLR would be public transport, and I agree - it wouldn't have to be cool or anything but utilitarian. Resort trans is currently the monorail (DL to DTD) and the parking lot trams. If and when DLR expands to a third park and/or something Disney-owned in GW, then they might have to expand resort trans, and the question becomes "with what." They might go utilitarian too (the WDW buses are nothing if not that), but it's fun to speculate on them connecting the third park with an expanded monorail or PM system.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Oh, and I asked this before, but if the bus route FROM DL to the new lot is more direct than from the lot to DL, why couldn't they take the shorter route both ways?
Originally Posted By mickeymorris1234 I'm referring to the first page. First off I always go for the day when I go to Disneyland so I have never had any of the problems most AP holders have had with parking. I pull off the freeway from the carpool lane and normally do not stop until halfway into the parking structure where I think work my way up to my spot being waved to me by happy cast members with a big stream of cars are being parked in an orderly fashion. I honestly never had any idea there was such a parking problem and I went during summer, halloween time, christmas, and Feb and same story so I cannot complain about the parking (at least not yet) However from the time I enter I get to the tram to the time I enter the line to get into the park it takes about 30-35 min. 5 min. to get through the structure, 10-15 min waiting in the masses for the tram, 8 min. tram ride, security, and finally getting in line. So how much of a difference is the 20 min making. I think it is taking 5 maybe 10 min. longer than the average park patron goes through to get into the park. And I think you probably have a shorter wait to leave the resort as well. When I leave to go back to the Mickey and Friends it takes 40min. + just to get to the car having to wait for the tram with tons of people (Even at 11 at night it is bad) With a smaller lot and tons of busses running I would think that it is faster to leave then those who parked in the MAFPS But I could be wrong.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt <They are one and the same.> "I don't think so. Getting from ARTIC to DLR would be public transport, and I agree - it wouldn't have to be cool or anything but utilitarian." Technically speaking there is no such thing as "DLR transportation". The DL Monorail is, much like the the parking lot trams, a shuttle from one side of the place to the other. There aren't multiple stops, rates, fees, or schedules for any of these things. What I initially asked, which ultimately led to this discussion, is why isn't there something that seamlessly connects the DLR with the Anaheim Resort and the entire region. DLR has transportation needs that are vastly different from TDL or WDW. The mindset seems to be that the Anaheim Resort area is on some kind of island when in fact it's directly in the middle of a huge urban area that stretches hundreds of miles in almost every direction.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Technically speaking there is no such thing as "DLR transportation". The DL Monorail is, much like the the parking lot trams, a shuttle from one side of the place to the other. There aren't multiple stops, rates, fees, or schedules for any of these things.> That's right, and just another reason it is anything but "one and the same" with public transportation in Anaheim. <What I initially asked, which ultimately led to this discussion, is why isn't there something that seamlessly connects the DLR with the Anaheim Resort and the entire region. DLR has transportation needs that are vastly different from TDL or WDW. The mindset seems to be that the Anaheim Resort area is on some kind of island when in fact it's directly in the middle of a huge urban area that stretches hundreds of miles in almost every direction.> Here we're on the same page. Internal DLR transportation can and should be fun, whimsical, etc. But getting to DLR from elsewhere in SoCal should be a lot easier than it is, and obviously public transport in SoCal in general could and should be far more extensive than it currently is.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Internal DLR transportation can and should be fun, whimsical, etc." I guess I don't get what "internal" transportation means in the context of this discussion. You can walk from one side of DLR to other without exerting much effort.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Spokker, I also attended one of those sessions in downtown Anahaim. But it was one of the more recent ones where they had already ruled out the buses and street trolleys." We might have gone to the same one. On another note I did meet Darkbeer at that public meeting, haha. Nice guy. You wouldn't know from meeting him that he's a right winger
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "I guess I don't get what "internal" transportation means in the context of this discussion. You can walk from one side of DLR to other without exerting much effort." Yes? But many people don't want to walk to M&F or enjoy taking the monorail to DLH. And if they do expand further to the strawberry field and/or GW, those become longer walks.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "For a resort trans, we need the "cool" yet efficent transport." If it's a matter of looking sleek, there are plenty of sleek light rail designs. This one operates in Houston: <a href="http://www.globalgiants.com/archives/fotos7/SiemensLightRailHouston.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.globalgiants.com/ar...ston.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Thanks for posting that link Spokker. Yes, there are plenty of nice designs. The Houston rail line looks similar to the new trains planned for Ottowa: <a href="http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/public_consult/transit_tunnel/lrt_newsletter_en-4.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.ottawa.ca/residents...en-4.jpg</a> "And if they do expand further to the strawberry field and/or GW, those become longer walks." So they build a dedicated lane for buses or trams, much like what they have now between the garage and the Esplanade. There's absolutely no need for an elaborate monorail or peoplemover to do this. The real problem with transportation in Anaheim has nothing to do with what is happening in DLR's boundaries or between the Esplanade and a hypothetical theme park built in the former strawberry patch. What Disney and civic leaders ought to be focused on are finding solutions for getting people to and from the place using public transportation network throughout the region. If personal auto use around the resort district is cut back the gridlock that people complained about at the start of this discussion would be reduced.
Originally Posted By Ohana all these posts have me losing interest in the topic. Please excuse me as I drive my V-12 alone to the park with my impressive 6 mpg and double park in the handicapped valet. No, I dont need a bus.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Portland Oregon is another city with a nifty and very modern looking fleet of light rail, streetcars, and even aerial skyways. The basic commuter vehicles don't have to look frumpy and dumpy. Portland's Light Rail trains: <a href="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2390/3542875033_2e121aa4c6.jpg" target="_blank">http://farm3.static.flickr.com...a4c6.jpg</a> Portland's smaller Trolley Cars: <a href="http://www.midtowncommunityworks.org/Images/Photo3-sidewalkstation.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.midtowncommunitywor...tion.jpg</a> Portland's amazing Aerial Tram up the hills: <a href="http://m1.smartmoney.net/dealoftheday/images/0308portland2.jpg" target="_blank">http://m1.smartmoney.net/dealo...and2.jpg</a> And these vehicles all are just in basic civic livery, or brushed aluminium on the skyway. You could do all sorts of zippy wraps and paintjobs on these modern vehicles to make them extra special and noticeable. Limit their stops to tourist-dedicated locations only, and you've got a Resort transit system that can easily plug into a bigger county/city system in the future.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<"And if they do expand further to the strawberry field and/or GW, those become longer walks.">> <So they build a dedicated lane for buses or trams, much like what they have now between the garage and the Esplanade. There's absolutely no need for an elaborate monorail or peoplemover to do this. >. But that presumes Anaheim's cooperation in building such a dedicated lane through or around or under literally the busiest intersection in town. Maybe they'd go for it, maybe not. It would certainly disrupt things in all directions around the Harbor/Katella nexus for quite some time. I agree there's no need for it, per se. At worst they could go for the purely utilitarian, like WDW's buses. My musings are about how to make the DLR more coherent and do so in a way that puts more of a smile on people's faces, rather than a grim-faced "okay, let's hop the bus to the other park." But of course, anything other than utilitarian costs money. <What Disney and civic leaders ought to be focused on are finding solutions for getting people to and from the place using public transportation network throughout the region. > On this we're in total agreement. That's the ideal. And I love what Portland has done, and it would be great on many levels if Anaheim had improved public transport like that, that could be used by tourists and residents alike. But again, this presupposes that Anaheim and/or the state will come through. That's far from certain. I guess what I'm saying is that the ideal is better public transport in Anaheim, but if that doesn't happen, Disney may need to think about going it alone. So how should they do that, if that becomes necessary? Of course, it's all moot until the third park appears, if ever. They don't need anything special just for the parking lot, nice as it would be to have something better than the current system. (But no one's yet answered my question: why can't they just take the shorter route in both directions, rather than the convoluted route described going towards the parks, and the shorter route going back to the lot?)
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt “But that presumes Anaheim's cooperation in building such a dedicated lane through or around or under literally the busiest intersection in town…” Yes, that would be an issue, however that would be have to be a consideration even it the transport was built as an overhead system. Either way, this sort of thing is done all the time, so it is nothing notable or unheard of in that respect. “I agree there's no need for it, per se. At worst they could go for the purely utilitarian, like WDW's buses.” You know what’s funny? I’ve been to WDW many times and I never once thought twice about the buses. No, they aren’t sexy, but they get the job done and are convenient, easy to use, and cost effective. Having been to so many airports with peoplemover systems, I kind of have the same attitude towards them as you do about buses. They seem equally as utilitarian to me. In my opinion Disney and Anaheim need to settle on the most efficient, flexible, and cost effective solution that is part of the regional transit grid. If it’s high speed bus lanes then so be it. “But again, this presupposes that Anaheim and/or the state will come through. That's far from certain. I guess what I'm saying is that the ideal is better public transport in Anaheim, but if that doesn't happen, Disney may need to think about going it alone. So how should they do that, if that becomes necessary.” I don’t think it’s an either or situation. For the sake of the region, which Disney’s traffic directly affects, there has to be some kind of mutual interest in solving the problem. None of those cars pouring in and out of the area immediately around DLR would be there if it weren’t for DLR. “ (But no one's yet answered my question: why can't they just take the shorter route in both directions, rather than the convoluted route described going towards the parks, and the shorter route going back to the lot?)” That’s actually a very good question, which I assume there is a reasonable answer for. You or someone else should ask one of the drivers.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<“But that presumes Anaheim's cooperation in building such a dedicated lane through or around or under literally the busiest intersection in town…”>> <Yes, that would be an issue, however that would be have to be a consideration even it the transport was built as an overhead system.> But not to the same extent. <Either way, this sort of thing is done all the time, so it is nothing notable or unheard of in that respect.> I think you're underestimating how disruptful this would be. But who knows. <<I agree there's no need for it, per se. At worst they could go for the purely utilitarian, like WDW's buses.>> <You know what’s funny? I’ve been to WDW many times and I never once thought twice about the buses. No, they aren’t sexy, but they get the job done and are convenient, easy to use, and cost effective.>. I found them quite erratic. Eventually I got there; but sometimes it took forever. <Having been to so many airports with peoplemover systems, I kind of have the same attitude towards them as you do about buses. They seem equally as utilitarian to me.> Utilitarian is fine. If they're not sharing space with vehicular traffic, though, they'd probably be more efficient. <In my opinion Disney and Anaheim need to settle on the most efficient, flexible, and cost effective solution that is part of the regional transit grid. If it’s high speed bus lanes then so be it.> See below. <<But again, this presupposes that Anaheim and/or the state will come through. That's far from certain. I guess what I'm saying is that the ideal is better public transport in Anaheim, but if that doesn't happen, Disney may need to think about going it alone. So how should they do that, if that becomes necessary.>> <I don’t think it’s an either or situation. For the sake of the region, which Disney’s traffic directly affects, there has to be some kind of mutual interest in solving the problem. None of those cars pouring in and out of the area immediately around DLR would be there if it weren’t for DLR.> But how many times have we seen "no brainers" not happen? There are all sorts of political pressures whenever the state or city gets involved, all kinds of hands out, all kinds of competing interests, and inertia often rules. We're on the same page as to what SHOULD happen. I just think that DL might be faced with the reality of having to go it alone. I hope I'm wrong.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance Yeah but Portland is awesome, so it goes without saying that it will have awesome transportation.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt <Yes, that would be an issue, however that would be have to be a consideration even it the transport was built as an overhead system.> “But not to the same extent.” No, but we’re not talking about building the World Trade Center in that intersection either. “I think you're underestimating how disruptful this would be. But who knows.” Why would it matter? The end result would simplify and ease congestion in the area - it would be a small price to pay. If a third park is built, which I doubt will happen, traffic will only worsen. <You know what’s funny? I’ve been to WDW many times and I never once thought twice about the buses. No, they aren’t sexy, but they get the job done and are convenient, easy to use, and cost effective.>. “I found them quite erratic. Eventually I got there; but sometimes it took forever.” So then, Disney needs to fix their scheduling, or at the very least install interactive GPS navigation like the Muni bus system here in San Francisco. Using my smart phone’s Internet connection, I never have to wait for a bus. Talk about Tommorrowland… it boggles my mind that isn’t Disney ahead of the game on this stuff. “Utilitarian is fine. If they're not sharing space with vehicular traffic, though, they'd probably be more efficient.” This is why I suggested dedicated bus lanes. Seattle actually has a system that runs underground. Here’s an example of what’s being planned for two major thoroughfares in San Francisco: <a href="http://www.sfcta.org/content/view/37/70/" target="_blank">http://www.sfcta.org/content/view/37/70/</a> This is something that could be built relatively quickly on long avenues like Harbor and Katella. “We're on the same page as to what SHOULD happen. I just think that DL might be faced with the reality of having to go it alone. I hope I'm wrong.” Yes, in a sense we are in agreement. Sadly, as a for profit business there is no inherent reason for Disney to improve the transportation outside of its gate if that transport isn’t funneling people to and from Disney property. As the largest employer in OC it would be nice if Disney decided to help solve the region’s transit mess at least for the benefit of its employees, but that will likely never happen so long as people are unwilling to give up their cars.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones There are plans to widen Katella, though I don't know how far along those plans are. Will yet another traffic lane really matter? How about widen it, but also dedicate a lane to buses or trains? Modern traffic engineers are too preoccupied with moving cars instead of moving people.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Hans, we really are on the same page about what OUGHT to happen. I'm all about good public transit. I'm just talking about DL's possible responses if the city and state don't come through, which is sadly a distinct possibility for any number of reasons.
