Originally Posted By CMM1 leemac's quote: "On the Frontierland front I'd be amazed if it is sited here now. It just doesn't make sense. FrL is so much about the Rivers of America and without that I don't see it having any energy or excitement." I would agree - it seems like a major strategic move by Disney was that HKDL is just not going to have a Frontierland. However, one can figure that they still can fit in POTC or Splash Mt. with some kind of Adventureland theme so it's not like they are without options.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "I would agree - it seems like a major strategic move by Disney was that HKDL is just not going to have a Frontierland. However, one can figure that they still can fit in POTC or Splash Mt. with some kind of Adventureland theme so it's not like they are without options." Frontierland was originally planned for HKDL. Heck, it was in the original press release announcing the park. At some point, it got the budget/creative axe. Not that I feel it's needed in every MK. This Adventureland looks great and coule be spectacular with new versions of PoC and HM.
Originally Posted By leemac I've also thought that Frontierland was the land that really lacked any imagination. I just felt soulless at every one of the parks. DLP's does look great (and an awesome BTM) but it feels lacking. It doesn't feel creative enough. LuvDatDisney I must admit I don't recall reading that Frontierland was going to be there. I'll have to check my records. My memory is probably on the blink.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "I've also thought that Frontierland was the land that really lacked any imagination. I just felt soulless at every one of the parks. DLP's does look great (and an awesome BTM) but it feels lacking. It doesn't feel creative enough." Shoot! We agree again. But as someone who grew up on westerns and Disney's Davy Crockett, I think the fault lies with the Imagineers. They haven't updated ---- yes, I know tht seems like wrong term ---- the Frontierlands. Indeed, they've taken things away that gave the area some flavor. In Florida, the Rivers of America used to feature two sternwheelers (that were open all day/night), canoes and keelboats. Now, there's one sternwheeler that operates on staggered hours. The rivers now seem dead. The MK used to have a wonderful stage show in the Diamond Horseshoe. That's been turned into a character greeting location. They used to have live country-flavored and bluegrass music and other streetmosphere entertainment. It's just all gone. You ride Big Thunder. You watch the Country Bears. Maybe you go over to Tom Sawyer's Island. I have to believe that WDI can come up with other concepts that fit the American Frontier periods the parks are trying to evoke. "LuvDatDisney I must admit I don't recall reading that Frontierland was going to be there. I'll have to check my records. My memory is probably on the blink." I distinctly remember reading about the Lewis and Clark Raft ride proposed for Disney's America as the signature attraction for the land as well as a direct lift of Phantom Manor from DLP.
Originally Posted By leemac Good points. I just think that the Frontierland is very limiting. With everything else you can blend ideas together like they have with Adventureland in HKDL. Frontierland works in Paris as the French have such an obsession with the Wild West. I just can't see what else they can do with it. So many other parks have a similar concept and it usually works okay (how hard is it to slap up some woodslat buildings and sawdust on the ground!). I actually think the Hotel Cheyenne at Paris is the best incarnation of a Wild West concept. Slightly humorous and tongue-in-cheek but with interactivity with the hayrides etc.
Originally Posted By mstaft DLP's Frontierland is absolutely wonderful in its execution. It is easy to get fully immersed in the land. The detail is there, the storyline is there, and so are a variety of attractions. It is not just hinged on Phantom Manor or Big Thunder. There are things for young and old, thrillseekers and those who like "traditional" Disney attractions. Great shops and restaurants for all pocketbooks. Adsd one slow moving, non-scary focused dark ride, and the land would be complete. (But please get the Molly Brown and canoes back up and running!) Well thought out all around. But again, DLP does storytelling well everywhere you look. Easily my favorite Magic Kingdom- and all this without Indy, Matterhorn, and Splash Mountain. Quite an accomplishment.
Originally Posted By RandySavage Several posts earlier I quoted the original press release which described Frontierland and the Lewis & Clark raft ride. It was most definitely part of the original concept.
Originally Posted By leemac I went back through my material and the mention of a Frontierland came when the original concept was presented in 1999. The whole presentation (if I recall it was so long ago that Judson Green was still Chairman for WDA) by WDA and WDI with their SAR government partners was presented as to what a Magic Kingdom COULD contain. They mentioned more DLP-type Frontierland elements than those found at the others. I can't see any formal reference to a Frontierland once the reclamation project had been finished and the land was handed over to Disney.
Originally Posted By fredddy The problem is not that Frontierland lack imagination or not(I think that DLP Frontierland is amazing), but the fact is that no Frontierland means a smaller park and less rides, that's all. So, they should have had a Frontierland on opening day.
Originally Posted By CMM1 For those of us who remember Disneyland's Frontierland prior to Big Thunder Mountain, it was back then a very large and expansive area of the park. The Mine Train ride used an extensive area of land including the "Nature's Wilderness" and "Painted Desert" areas. There was the very large Cascade Peak and a number of water craft in the river (canoes, keel boats, rafts, MT and Columbia) But now, with only BTMRR and the remnants of various failed attractions out back, there is considerably less vitality and energy in that area of the park. I would not disagree that WDW's Frontierland seems merely to be an afterthought consisting of a few themed buildings linking Splash Mountain and BTMRR to Liberty Square. DLP's Frontierland is certainly more interesting and expansive.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Concidering the serious lack of rides at HKDL, they should open up the Mules ride, just like DL used to have, and they can rename the area Frontierland. Can anyone think of another way to build up capacity cheaply?
Originally Posted By BrigmanMT 2 Mules aren't going to help the capacity. One rider per vehcile was pretty weak. Cheap isn't going to help, the next step should be an immersive people eating Haunted Mansion (and lengthy indoor experience) or a rethunk Big Thunder. This type of addition would open up a whole new area of the park, would bring the "big" attraction count up from two to 3 and the newly opened pathway would increase park capacity. The new area could also hold a gigantic eating facility with endless land available for seating (since it would merely serve as a well done placeholder till the next big thing comes along 15 years down the line. Big Thunder is a realitively easy and inexpensive attraction. I beleive it is the best bang for the buck Disney has ever gotten. It cost half the price of Disneyland's Winnie the Pooh, yet it is enjoyed by everybody, and universaly recognized as an E-Ticket, and a perfect combination of a family/thrill and Disney themeing. I think Star Tours might be a realitively inexpensive way to expand the weak Tomorrowland, and up the park capcity, but I am unsure how expensive the licensing would be. Today those pods could be made just outside the park. The Animatronics would quickly be installed, and then the building could be tilted up while they pull a switch to turn on the 18 year old film. The main mission of this park is to introduce China to Disney. Star Tours might just confuse people... From the articles I have read, it seems like the obvious solution is to open up one of those planned pad areas, and to install the giant eating facility I mentioned earlier. Surround the area with construction walls for the next huge orignal E-Ticket (Big Thunder, Pirates, Haunted Mansion). This will answer the short term problem, and would get people excited about the future. It may also save face, since many of the interviewees seem to be a tad angry at disney. A sign that Disney is seriously interested in investing in the property could go a long way for good will. Right now the governemnt attacking their policy on capacity looks absolutely horrible. China is complaining that Disney is overcrowded!?! Not good. They would never lower the capacity (it would harm all of their estimates and dollar figures), but they need to patch these holes up quick. I am sure they have a few back up plans already in place. I am surprised that the articles seem to show that Disney was unaware the Chinese people eat for longer periods, and order more. That sames like a big thing to overlook when designing a theme park. I am sure they will be more than happy to plop a huge restaurant with $18 meals in some far corner of the park. I bet it appears before Christmas.
Originally Posted By leemac According to our sources there definitely won't be any movement on the 30k figure any time soon. Management believe it was just a teething problem from guests not knowing what to do (ie. with Fastpass etc.) and CMs just not being used to that number (none of the Rehearsal Days reached the capacity deliberately). We won't know now until Monday after the Grand Opening ceremony and guests start arriving at 1pm into the park.
Originally Posted By leemac Also this park has a lot of restaurants and F&B is set up to serve meals to 30% of the day's attendance every hour. There definitely is enough dining facilities so I can only guess that it was just logistical issues.
Originally Posted By Westsider Here's an easy fix they can do before next weekend, when 30,000 people will show up again and jam the Park and create another "Charity Day" experience. The hostesses at City Hall, as well as all Park operations management should have access to portable signs. When huge lines form, or angry mobs of frustrated Guests jam queues or restaurants, they can just quickly stick up signs that say the following: "DISNEY'S MARKETING DEPARTMENT HAS FOUND THAT ASIANS ENJOY TAKING PICTURES AND LOOKING AT LANDSCAPING JUST AS MUCH AS RIDING ATTRACTIONS OR SEEING SHOWS. THIS DISNEYLAND LOCATION IS CURRENTLY OVERCROWDED, AND ALL ASIAN GUESTS ARE NOW ASKED TO TAKE PICTURES OF SOMETHING OR LOOK AT THE FLOWERS. WE ASK THAT YOU CHECK BACK AT THIS LOCATION LATER IN THE DAY, WHEN IT MAY BE ABLE TO ACCOMODATE YOU. THANK YOU." That might help, right?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<According to our sources there definitely won't be any movement on the 30k figure any time soon. Management believe it was just a teething problem from guests not knowing what to do (ie. with Fastpass etc.) and CMs just not being used to that number (none of the Rehearsal Days reached the capacity deliberately).>> Then the management there are morons. Westsider has explained this to us that it's a horrible guest-to-ratio numbers regardless. I just wish Disney would fly him over to Hong Kong and explain it to them v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y. It's simple really Disney. You built a TINY park with very few rides which most of those all done in under 3 minutes. 30,000 people jaming the paths all day is insane. Also, having a lot of restaurants might be a good approach, but since it seems like a lot of people are just complaining about the food there too, it won't help matters much. Anyway, it will be interesting to see the Mayhem continue I guess.
