Originally Posted By vbdad55 Davewasbaloo -- man if we get a chance for dinner-- the ocnversation should be unreal. That is so true-- people who complain most about exec perks ( and Iamnot talking about the outrageous CEO salaries- that is a different issue altogether) - for the most part would never work in an exempt managerial role. I was a director of corporate audit when my oldest was born. For the next 2 years I averaged 4 days per month at home. I did it for my career and future and it paid off -- but I will never get that time back with my child. I missed all the great events that many others don't-- so a BBQ -spare ( rib) me, it doesn;t make up for any of that but at least is a nice gesture from the company to show they still care at least a litlle about those sacrificing to make them successful. Imean, there are people I know that if you ask them to stay 10 minutes, you would think you were asking them to lop off an arm......except they are first in line complaining about raises
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Man, I so hear you. I sit on our staff consultative commitee exec, representing the professional and management arm. When I legitimately asked about some contract changes regarding new company car scheme and medical benefits, the daggers I got from our ops staff. The sarcasm of it must be nice to get the perks, but as they were enjoying lunch (catered), I had to use the PDA to keep up with my 20 projects. Then as they complained the meeting went 20 minutes over, meaning they would get home 20 minutes later than normal (and would they get overtime) - I quietly dashed off to work on a bid until 4am (after a 6:30 am start). I am doing it because I am determined to become a director before I am 35 (ok maybe 40), and give my kids thing I never had. And before someone says, what about your time? Well I also do it so Sarah can stay at home with the kids. Weekends are sacrosanct - my time is with the family. But sleep is highly overrated!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 In a way I am comforted in some strange that it is the same everywhere...but it surely is not a change for the better in the long run. The great years at Disney( and it is easy to forget at times they are a corporation with responsibility to the stockholders) - as far as creativity are probably over. Sure there will be some excellent people left there that occasionally will hit a home run with something ( case in point for me Talk Time w/ Crush) --- but as far as sweeping creativity running rampant - I think not. It's not affordable is the bottom line.... We just need to make sure we never lose the magic we still have today....
Originally Posted By TomSawyer It's a pretty bleak picture that you're painting, not just in terms of Disney but for all companies and for our society in general. It's as if we are shifting into "middle age" in all areas of our culture, where comfortable familiarity and the accumulation of wealth for it's own sake is taking precedent over the hungry drive that we once had. We used to seek out the frontiers not only of our land but in science and culture and business and even in government. We're acting like most middle aged people, focusing on what we have and getting more. We've set aside the youthful idealism that once was the hallmark of the US and even of the UK. We're not willing as a society to sacrifice our wealth or careers or stability to chase after a pipe dream. And when faced with choices, we tend to favor the decision that makes more financial sense than the decision that will be rewarding in ways that can't be measured by money.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Tom, you have pretty much hit upon the 'dirty little secret' of the U.S. today. Unfortunately unless a person is involved in higher management in corporations this does not get out to the press. Layoffs are donein smaller dribs and drabs so as not to hit the papers and alarm anyone. We are and have not been here for a while an industrial ecomony -- we are a services economy ( we don't make anything)- for the most part. It is not things/commodities that generate the GDP, it is intelligence capital. Consultants / attorneys etc. Most major corpoartions ( hint : even a 100B one) - have no plants in the U.S. My BIL works for Wrigleys who over the past 10 years + had gone from their 3 main plants in US to 1 in mexico and 1 in China and now are closing the founding plant here in Chicago. All decisions are financial in nature...period. The % of people who will not have pensions when they retire ( nor health care benefits ) by 2015 is staggering. If you think it is a state of the have's and have not's now-- wait 10 years. It is not a pretty picture....and there is no way to sugarcoat it...
Originally Posted By TomSawyer It will be interesting to see how it all comes out in the end. It seems as though capitalism is failing as surely as communism did - only with better shoes.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <It will be interesting to see how it all comes out in the end. It seems as though capitalism is failing as surely as communism did - only with better shoes.< A shortened version of this makes for a heck of a bumper sticker -- and it may be too early to write it off yet -- but I think some sort of renaissance for manufacturing has to take place if we are to regain the world status financially we enjoyed for so long now. remember the .com bubble burst -- if there ain't brick and mortar....it's not real forever
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "It will be interesting to see how it all comes out in the end. It seems as though capitalism is failing as surely as communism did - only with better shoes." Here. Here. Boy, do I agree with this. (as I type this, I hear Delta Airlines is filing for Chapter 11). Capitalism as it now stands in this country is becoming an abysmal failure. And I'm no wackjob commie, it says "Republican" proudly on my voter's registration card. Our leaders (political and corporate) seem to think we can just become a service economy (with only lawyers, consultants, MBAs, sports stars, and celebs making $$$)with almost no real middle class, and everything will just be dandy. Well, it won't. PanAm doesn't exist anymore. Woolworth doesn't exist anymore. Montgomery Ward doesn't exist anymore. Sometimes I think we'll have one airline (SW), one discounter/grocer (WalMart), one department store (Macy's) and one dining option (Taco Bell). We need bigthinkers ... people like Walt Disney. Not managers like Bob Iger. There seems to be some misplaced idea that quality doesn't matter anymore and that no one will pay for it. What an interesting thread ... I am really enjoying reading the the thread, especially Westsider's post. I have heard about the lavish parties WDI throws itself before, but you added a lot of detail. As to the disdain they had for operators, that frankly makes me sick. And I really disagree with Dave about why the big guys in management get the perks vs. the little peons. Operators aren't crucial? Why don't you tell that to the family of the folks killed at DL in the Columbia and Big Thunder Mountain incidents or to the family of the brain-damaged little boy who was improperly loaded on Roger Rabbit. heck, even a cook at the local McDonald's does work that could potentially kill people if the food preparation isn't handled right. Sounds to me like a lot of what I hear about management and their big risks. Frankly, I think much of it is BS. I know someone who was a VP of a major furniture company and lost his job recently due to ineptitude. He had three better offers within a month and was working again in two. I don't where exactly I'm going with this, other than I think many folks in management greatly overestimate their importance so I certainly do not see a risk/reward equation as cut and dry as some of you guys do. Hey, maybe we can send all our jobs to India and China and have an underclass here to make all the execs feel good about the fact they work 52 hours a week so they can own three Lexus SUVs, two homes, a boat and timeshare. "The great years at Disney( and it is easy to forget at times they are a corporation with responsibility to the stockholders) - as far as creativity are probably over." Yes, sadly I agree. But the question really is does it have to be? Why do quality and creativity and profit have to be disparate elements? Disey has been cutting back in all areas of its core businesses since the mid-90s, but what has the stock done? It's languished. It the stock is $27 a share with quality at a higher level and $27 a share with dirty parks, no new attractions, no feature animation, WDI rewarding all the wrong folks and laying off the others, can someone please explain to me why Disney is better able to 'compete in the world marketplace' ? Cause I just don't see it at all. People will pay for quality. Walt and Roy knew this. Heck, Michael Eisner knew this at one point. I just don't get it. And, God, do I feel bad for the children of the 21st Century. We are all letting them down.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "As to the disdain they had for operators, that frankly makes me sick. And I really disagree with Dave about why the big guys in management get the perks vs. the little peons." AS I said, I don't agree with treating people like trash, not at all. But the risks are something that people realise until they are confronted with them. My life in the past as a trainer or social worker seemed so easy, and I use to wonder why management got so many perks. Well having climbed that ladder, I have learnt a lot more. Ops staff may get repremanded, but it's the exec who is accountable - kind of like ground troops and generals. Modern business is a sad state of affairs in the loss of innovation and risk taking. And I agree that it has to change. That's why I am trying to in my industry. But let's not all get all glum, we still have the likes of Bill Gates, John Lasseter, Tim Burton, Stelios etc. who innovate. I just hope our economies wake up and smell the frappacino and quickly.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo BTW - I only have one house (1000 sq feet), 2 Skodas, and go on vacation once a year at the mo. This is so my DW can be a full time domestic goddess and we can have a family. No 2nd home for me (yet)
Originally Posted By SuperDry If Walt had been operating a publicly-traded company in today's equity market, he never would have been able to do the things he did. I think that many of the things that have been mentioned in this thread could be workable and profitable for a corporation today, as long as it was privately held. But many of the things that have been mentioned here (outsourcing, consolidation, and so on) are driven by the way the equity market functions today. I don't know what it's going to take to change it - it's going to need a lot more than one man with a vision.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed Superdry. Am I the only person who thinks it's a bad idea to float their company on the stock exchange?
Originally Posted By leemac I guess it just depends what type of job you are in. I work for a professional services partnership and so our people are our only asset. We have to look after them or they ship off somewhere else. TWDC isn't. They are product-driven in virtually every category. I get job referrals from the Company that in the past they would have done in-house. I may charge more but my team have more expertise than those CMs would have had and we can deliver a final product that meets what Disney expect. That isn't been big-headed or boastful. It is just we fill a niche. I can see it from both sides. I have never seen an imagineer be deliberately rude or obnoxious to a CM but in light of the quality of hourly CMs that TWDC is employing in the US right now I'm not surprised. Now the US middle managers that are out here in HKDL are definitely ruder than I've ever experienced.
Originally Posted By paulyahoo Is Bill Gates an innovator? With stagnating Microsoft's stock, no major OS and Office releases for years and copying ideas from competitors? It's fascinating to see how MS is so bureaucratic and slow now.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "TWDC isn't. They are product-driven in virtually every category. I get job referrals from the Company that in the past they would have done in-house. I may charge more but my team have more expertise than those CMs would have had and we can deliver a final product that meets what Disney expect. That isn't been big-headed or boastful. It is just we fill a niche." Similar with my clientele. The teams I put on site have great interpersonal skills, a wealth of knowledge derived from previous projects, and a hunger for success. They do great work, much better than many of the public sector colleagues we work with. But then again, Lee and I work for similar companies.
Originally Posted By jmuboy Just to change topics slightly here, I read the interview with Tom Morris on Mice Age. He seems to hint that Frotierland ride(s) will appear in AL down the road as part of a "Pacific Northwest" sort of region. BTMRR maybe?
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I thought that was an interesting interview. I hope it pans out - I like the idea of an Adventureland made up of smaller "ports of call".
Originally Posted By TomSawyer And a BTMRR with a Pacific Northwest theme would be cool. And they could tie in a GRR with that pretty easily.
Originally Posted By idleHands "Disey has been cutting back in all areas of its core businesses since the mid-90s, but what has the stock done? It's languished." So imagine where the profits would be, where the stock price would be, if Disney didn't do all this cutting back? Cost cutting is how Disney has been pumping up their bottom line for years now. "People will pay for quality. Walt and Roy knew this. Heck, Michael Eisner knew this at one point." But people will pay for quality, only if they have the means to do so. And as others have articulated in this thread, the American middle class is disappearing, along with the quality of life it's provided for millions of Americans, for the past several decades. The immediate success of Disneyland in the fifties was partly due to ability of the middle class having the financial capability to attend. It will be very interesting indeed to see which socio-economic groups in mainland China will have said financial capability of attending the Shanghai park. The vast overwhelming majority of Chinese citizens will most likely never have the means to attend, which was certainly not the case for Americans visiting Anaheim, 40 to 50 years ago.
Originally Posted By leemac jmuboy I'd be intrigued to see the date that Alain Littaye made that interview. I've a sneaking suspicion that it was a few years ago.
