Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Well, it was rushed into MK in the first place. Now if they had put more thought into it, rather than Card Walker demanding that it be put into MK by '73 at all costs. It could have been plussed over the DL version, but oh well...
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt With the two or three updates on HKDL here so far I have to say that I am completely underwhelmed. The park looks lovely and I'm sure it will be pleasant to visit, however the uninspired tribute to DL's Main Street and the bland looking Tomorrowland don't look like anything more than what we've seen before. Which, of course, is because we have. Maybe it all looks more intriguing in person, but it certainly doesn't appear to come close to the beauty and spectacle of the last Magic Kingdom - Disneyland Paris. Of course I'm holding judgement until I visit one day. But looking at the pictures I don't think that will be anytime soon.
Originally Posted By leemac Hans I'm not sure what you really expect from a Main St? They are all pretty much the same. I can understand your view on TL. I like the look but it is very open and flat. But again I'm not sure what the alternative is.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney I don't know, I REALLY like the DLP TL. That one seems to be the best "Timeless" look while looking REALLY cool at the same time. Why didn't they just go that route once again? I don't hate the HKDL TL look, but I can't say I'm all that impressed with it either.
Originally Posted By Westsider leemac >> "The whole poor on E-tickets scenario will play out once the park opens. As Disney enthusiasts we all seem to get very hung up on these. However there are a multitude of other C and D attractions at WDW's MK that are more popular than those traditional E-tickets. PotC in my experience is virtually always a walk-on, HM is never a long line whilst most of the Fantasyland stuff has very long lines as does Buzz."<< Ride capacity plays a HUGE factor in how long a line is, and how quickly it moves. To compare Pirates, the king of efficiency in all Disney Parks, to a dark ride in Fantasyland is the extreme example of this. This summer at Pirates we've been averaging 2,800 riders PER HOUR when we have all 46 boats running. (Some days Facilities can only give us 42 or 44 boats due to maintenance issues). On a typical summer day at Disneyland Pirates will cycle through around 40,000 riders PER DAY. Compare that to Peter Pan, which gets around 550 to 580 riders per hour. It's no wonder Peter Pan always has a 45 minute wait, even on weekdays in winter. It is simply a very low capacity dark ride. Snow White and Pinocchio, which have two rows of seats instead of one, average about 750 riders per hour. Nothing spectacular, but certainly not as dismal as Peter Pan or Mr. Toad. Haunted Mansion averages about 2,100 an hour. Although if we get a good string of luck of an hour without any wheelchairs or hobbling Annual Passholders demanding we stop the loading belt for them, Mansion can get around 2,350 an hour. Looking at the roster of attractions in Hong Kong Disneyland, and knowing the hourly capacities of their counterparts here in Anaheim, I see a park that has very limited ride capacity. Here's a rundown of the hourly capacities of the rides here in Anaheim, and from the looks of the pics I see no major design differences in Hong Kong that would substantially improve their hourly capacities.... Space Mountain - 1,800 per hour Buzz Lightyear - 1,700 per hour Rocket Jets - 800 per hour Tea Cups - 800 per hour Dumbo - 700 per hour Carousel - 700 per hour Pooh - 750 per hour Jungle Cruise - 1,500 per hour Rafts to Island - 600 per hour DLRR 3 train operation - 1,400 per hour Main Street vehicles - 150 per hour That's about it for rides, right? There's Philharmagic, which if it's close to HISTA is about 1,200 per hour with packed auditoriums. And then there's the theater shows, and I know the Snow White show has a capacity of 1,900 per show, with about 5 shows per day. Add that all up and that's not a whole lot. Nevermind the fact that many of those C Ticket rides are hardly big draws. If you've been on Dumbo, do you really need to go on the Rocket Jets an hour later? The CM's at Hong Kong Disneyland should pray for no downtimes longer than an hour, because their Guests are going to be furious if even one of the major attractions is closed. Hong Kong Disneyland looks like it has a razor thin margin for error when it comes to the attractions. It simply needs more E Ticket rides, and it needed them yesterday.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>It's no wonder Peter Pan always has a 45 minute wait, even on weekdays in winter. It is simply a very low capacity dark ride<< 45 mins? You mean...before fastpass destroyed that line since they installed FP, the stand by line holds guests captive for well over an hour on busy days, and has created massive overcrowding at that end of WDW's Fantasyland. >>Snow White and Pinocchio, which have two rows of seats instead of one, average about 750 riders per hour<< As for Snow White... all of those 750 ridres have to endure long delays and backups that go as far back as the scene where the Wicked Witch is killed, due to the very poor planning and redesign of the queue area (at WDW's version) which provides no room for stacking ride vehicles once they exit the last show scene. Very VERY bad show... AS for Leemac's comments about POTC being a "virtual" walkon... yes; on slow days that is. Last time I went to the MK the line for POTC was doing the dreaded switch back and forth outside the entrance's turnstyles, almost all the way back to the annoying Bird babbling on... (just like me)
Originally Posted By aracuanbird Westsider...I am curious why Buzz (one of those vaunted omnimover rides) cannot approach numbers akin to Haunted Mansion. Why isn't its hourly capacity over 2000?
Originally Posted By Westsider The vehicles are spaced a bit farther apart on Buzz compared to Mansion, as the Buzz vehicles are bulkier and the spacing was designed to allow spinning and more room between cars. Plus, the hourly capacity of Mansion assumes that some doombuggies will have three people in them, and I see that happen quite a bit with families with children or Japanese tourists. But at Buzz, in addition to the vehicles being larger and spaced farther apart, the hourly capacity is affected by the fact that there are only two guns in each vehicle and thus it is very rare for three people to squeeze into a Buzz vehicle. Buzz Lightyear at Disneyland has about 80 vehicles cycling on the track, and Haunted Mansion at Disneyland has 131 vehicles. I believe the cycle time of Buzz is shorter than the 7 minute ride time at Mansion, but the slight increase in spacing between the vehicles at Buzz is what causes the drop in capacity, in addition to the rare occurence of more than 2 people at a time riding in a Buzz vehicle. It's all rather minor stuff, but it all adds up over the course of an hour. And having to stop the ride for wheelchairs or people who insist they need the belt stopped also can chop hundreds of riders per hour off an Omnimovers hourly capacity. Something tells me there will be a lot fewer Annual Passholders in rented ECV's yelping at the Load Cast Member at Buzz Lightyear that they have to have the belt stopped. "I'm a Premium Annual Passholder, and they ALWAYS have stopped the belt for me!" (I've heard that more times than you would believe at the Haunted Mansion load area)
Originally Posted By Westsider TDLFAN, you must be referring to Walt Disney World. I've heard horror stories about their Fantasyland dark rides and how poorly they are maintained and operated. I heard a rumor they took out the "hold zones" that would normally break a ride down if they are occupied too long. That may prevent breakdowns from occurring from slow loading Guests, but it does nothing to encourage the CM's working the ride from keeping things moving and sometimes ordering slow moving people into their seats. If you know the ride won't break down, why bother trying to tell the slow poke tourists fumbling with the diaper bag to hurry up? You can just stack up the cars endlessly in the old "hold zones" and not worry about breaking down. WDW often does things very, very differently from Disneyland when it comes to operational stuff.
Originally Posted By aracuanbird Dang ECV's! I imagine if you become too much of a hassle at HKDL, you will be quietly led away, and shot. What ever is left may be fed to the wild dogs, or used as the chewy parts in the park's I Can't Believe It's Not Shark Fin Soup concoction.
Originally Posted By Westsider You know, the more I think about it, the more that list I typed out with the hourly capacities of Hong Kong Disneyland's attractions really makes me scared for my fellow CM's across the ocean. All of the Disney press releases say they'll limit daily attendance at Hong Kong to 30,000 guests. That's the attendance of a Friday in the off season, or a weekday in May or early June. Can you imagine an average Friday in October when the following Disneyland attractions were closed for refurbishment?... Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Splash Mountain, Canoes, Mark Twain, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Indiana Jones Adventure, Enchanted Tiki Room, Matterhorn, Small World, Peter Pan, Snow White, Mr. Toad, Pinnochio, Alice In Wonderland, StorybookLand, Casey Jr., Roger Rabbit, Go Coaster, Disneyland Monorail, Autopia, Star Tours, Innoventions, Horse Drawn Streetcars, and Mr. Lincoln? Seriously, imagine going to Disneyland on a Friday in Autumn with all of those rides closed. There are 30,000 other people there with you, and you can only go on the following rides; Space Mountain, Buzz Lightyear, Rocket Jets, Honey I Shrunk The Audience, Winnie The Pooh, Teacups, Dumbo, Carousel, Jungle Cruise, Rafts to Tom Sawyer Island, Horseless Carriage, and the Disneyland Railroad. That would be one heck of a bad day at Disneyland, don't you think? But that's what Hong Kong Disneyland will be offering next month to 30,000 people a day. Bad, bad, BAD scene there, trust me. I hope they installed bullet proof glass at the counter in City Hall. ;-)
Originally Posted By aracuanbird I have heard that people really appreciate gardens in China. Will they offer Fastpass on the flower-sniffing queue?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Can you imagine an average Friday in October when the following Disneyland attractions were closed for refurbishment?... Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Splash Mountain, Canoes, Mark Twain, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Indiana Jones Adventure, Enchanted Tiki Room, Matterhorn, Small World, Peter Pan, Snow White, Mr. Toad, Pinnochio, Alice In Wonderland, StorybookLand, Casey Jr., Roger Rabbit, Go Coaster, Disneyland Monorail, Autopia, Star Tours, Innoventions, Horse Drawn Streetcars, and Mr. Lincoln? Seriously, imagine going to Disneyland on a Friday in Autumn with all of those rides closed. There are 30,000 other people there with you, and you can only go on the following rides; Space Mountain, Buzz Lightyear, Rocket Jets, Honey I Shrunk The Audience, Winnie The Pooh, Teacups, Dumbo, Carousel, Jungle Cruise, Rafts to Tom Sawyer Island, Horseless Carriage, and the Disneyland Railroad.>> Jesus Christ, I never even THOUGHT of it that way. I been giving this park all kinds of crap , but it never even HIT me that I could possibly be waiting up to 2 hours just to ride the Rocket Jets and the DLRR?? I been so busy complaing about the bad attractions, I didn't even think about how LONG I would have to wait just to ride those bad attractions . Man, its going to be FUN to come to these boards in a month and read all the reports . Who knows though, it may not be too bad. Again, I don't give Disney hardly any faith anymore. With the exception of TDS and the 50th birthday celebration, it doesn't seem like they can do anything right. But, maybe they are prepared for the mass crowds and have something up their sleeves here. If not, I HOPE the Chinese are as patient as the Japanese for stuff like this .
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "I believe the cycle time of Buzz is shorter than the 7 minute ride time at Mansion, but the slight increase in spacing between the vehicles at Buzz is what causes the drop in capacity, in addition to the rare occurence of more than 2 people at a time riding in a Buzz vehicle." Th lenght of the ride loop has nothing to do with capacity. The only thing that does affect it, is how many vehicles get cycled past the load station in an hour. Those geusts will unload somewhere, and others will take their places at some point down the road. Most people count capacity as if the ride was already running, and they started counting the number of people walking out of teh exit each hour. They don't usually start when the people get on the ride, wait for them to get all the way through it, and count that as part of the time. The only attractions where the ride time matters in capacity are the flat rides that all load at once, like Dumbo, the Teacups, Carrousel, or the movies.
Originally Posted By jmuboy In responce to post 55....Disney deserves what ever bad press and egg in the face they get. You reap what you sow (in this case they sowed nothing and they will reap nothing). They have been running theme parks for 50 years!!! If they can't get it right by now then they deserve all the hardship and lost money that is coming to them.
Originally Posted By mstaft World Disney, the "Jesus Christ" thing is really offensive to me. Would you consider keeping that out of your text? Please be considerate of others in this way. Just imagine the uproar if I was insensitive to others and started using vulgar slang for folks who were different than I was. I appreciate your consideration of this.
Originally Posted By jmuboy And Westsider - THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for your capacity numbers and well though out DLR comparisons. I'm an attractions manager for a theme park here in the states and I've been screaming about this capacity issue to people I've had conversations with about HKDL, I just didn't have real numbers to argue with. HKDL is going to draw huge crowds - the early crowds riding the MTR trains proves this. But what on earth are they all going to do once they get there!?!? That's 5.5 million people a year. Assume 30k per day on a busy day. Then assume a 14-hour operating day. Then assume Wessider's numbers - that's only 209,000 available trips through a ride or seats in a show (and that's giving Philharmagic and the Golden Mickeys 2k per hour capacity with is mildly inflated) per day. THAT's HORRIBLE. And before anyone says anything, yes there is always a parade, fireworks, Tarzan's Treehouse and the don't forget the Liki Tiki's and Fantasy Gardens! Let's just say I see MGM all over again.
Originally Posted By mstaft World Disney, your posts are great to read and well thought out. I do enjoy them- just wanted to let you know that, like all LP posters, I value your contribution.
