Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<World Disney, the "Jesus Christ" thing is really offensive to me. Would you consider keeping that out of your text?>> Sorry mstaft, didn't realize it . To be honest, it's just what I say to myself in the "real world" when I'm shocked by something, so I never thought it would be offensive here (also, I'm an athiest, so I guess I never look at it from a religious perspective and it could be percieved). But, I read you LOUD and CLEAR. I'm not here to offend anyone (unless you go to DCA ). So, it will no longer be used in my postings again, promise.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Why are you so eager for HKDL to fail, WD?>> Woah Tom, who said I wanted it to fail???? Don't get me wrong, I want it to be the most sucessful new park to come around since TDS--but for the RIGHT reasons!!!?I don't think that is asking for much, right? Also, it was WESTSIDER who posted the ride capacity issue, not me.I don't have a clue about that stuff until someone here posts it. But, let's be honest and Westsider makes a good point, do YOU want to be a park with 30,000 people when you have about 8 OPTIONS of what to ride and only 2 of them are basic E-tickets while the rest are 2 baic dark rides, spinners, and the DLRR.?Again, THAT'S what we are talking about here. We are talking possibly 90+ min. lines for most rides that I would only be willing to wait a third of that time for. Listen, HKDL is a beautiful park, they got that right, good. But if you are going to drop a nice grand or more when its all said and done for plane, hotels, transportation and everything else, sure I would like to go to a park that has a little more then well placed trees and cute archetecture . I imagine if you are Chinese and you are paying an EXPENSIVE plane ticket from the mainland like Beijing, Xian, Shanhai or whereever, you don't want to spend hours just waiting to ride the carosel once you get there. But, maybe I'm completely wrong, I have no clue. But, no I don't want the park to fail like what happened with DCA. Actually, I WANT ALOT of people to show up. I want it to be SHUT DOWN everyday for the first few months. I want it bustling with people. Why?? Because hopefully, a lot will visit that "attraction" called City Hall *sigh*, and complain how there isn't enough to do and that will get Disney's @$$ in gear and put phases 2-6 on the fast track, pronto . Again though, I WILL be there myself either in September or November, so I haven't exactly scratched it off my list or anything, but yeah, I'm underwelmed, but I been underwelmed for the past 2 years once I heard the attraction roster. But, the beauty of the park itself makes it worth seeing at least ONCE however until they put in some attractions. Trust me, I had a few chances to go back to France and check out WDSP, but haven't done it yet . This park, as much as I complain about it, DOES seem worth seeing at least once.It's the SECOND time around that I am highly doubtful about .
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "WDW often does things very, very differently from Disneyland when it comes to operational stuff." Ohhhhhhhhh, do I agree with this. And boy does show quality suffer for it!
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "Actually the popularity of Fantasy Gardens is their biggest worry. The area will be closed if the queues get too long to meet the characters." Why does this sound like the infamous George Kalogridis LA Times quote from 1/01 that Darkbeer keeps posting on the DCA board about turning guests away from DCA and having to send them to DCA? "HK-ers have tiny apartments and are embarrassed about entertaining at home. They hire restaurants and meet their friends elsewhere. Research has shown that they love gardens and fanciful areas. Disneyland is perfect for this. The city has a fairly high average disposable income and so I do really think locals will go just to spend the day outside the house. " I'm sorry, Lee, but that sounds like PR-babble. People go to Disney parks for attractions (everything else is secondary). This is the same scary 'the folks just don't get it because they're too simple' Barry Braverman/DCA excuse and explanation. This park needs 2-3 E-Tickets and 2-3 D Tickets yesterday. The gardens at DAK are lovely too, but that's not why people go to the place.
Originally Posted By leemac ^^ We will see next week. The evidence suggests otherwise so only time will tell. I'm only relaying the info that I have seen and been told. I'll be interested to see how it works out too. Having spent time in the city I tend to agree though. People seem to roam about the city a lot more than anywhere else I've ever been. A city of 7m and it feels a lot busier than Tokyo with over double in the main shopping areas etc.
Originally Posted By leemac <<People go to Disney parks for attractions (everything else is secondary).>> Not true at all. Otherwise no-one would have gone to DAK on opening. Also take a trip out to TDR and see people happily doing very little all day but shop, dine and wander around (and wait all day for a parade sometimes!)
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "Why does this sound like the infamous George Kalogridis LA Times quote from 1/01 that Darkbeer keeps posting on the DCA board about turning guests away from DCA and having to send them to DCA?" An edit key would be great! That should read send guests to Disneyland! Sorry.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "Not true at all. Otherwise no-one would have gone to DAK on opening." I would disagree. The safaris, Pangani Forest Trek, CTX, Tough to be a Bug, and Lion King show were all E-Ticket caliber when they opened. And they weren't a 3-minute coaster ride like Space Mountain either and that's the only legit E-Ticket I see in HKDL's opening slate. "Also take a trip out to TDR and see people happily doing very little all day but shop, dine and wander around (and wait all day for a parade sometimes!)" Eating, walking and Illuminations is a perfect Epcot day for me too ... but I doubt it is for most people.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<People go to Disney parks for attractions (everything else is secondary).>> <<Not true at all. Otherwise no-one would have gone to DAK on opening. Also take a trip out to TDR and see people happily doing very little all day but shop, dine and wander around (and wait all day for a parade sometimes!)>> Okay, I'm a little confused by that statement. How do you KNOW people are "happily doing very little all day"?? What, do you follow them and track them? Sorry, it just sounds bizarre to me. How is it ANY different at the other parks when people are spending time to shop and eat or waiting for a parade? Also, if you are talking about APer's (which we both know TDL has an abudance of) and all the crazy fans who are in the parks DAILY, then you can't compare it to the average family who goes twice a year, spends a few THOUSAND in the process just to spend hours window shopping and tasting the expensive cuisine and then only ride 3 attracions, 1 show and calls it a day. Also, I'm definitely a 'ride guy' myself, but sure I DO stop between FP's and shop, go to restaurants and etc. I think most people who goes to the parks on an average basis does this. But, I'm pretty sure most pay those Disney prices because they want Disney ATTRACTIONS to go with them. For all those lesuirely TDL fans just shopping, it certainly doesn't stop the REST of them from making Pooh an average 3 hour wait in the summer time. Besides, that still doesn't stop the argument if all that is 100% true. It's a difference between someone making a decision to spend a day to shop/eat and only ride a few attractions VERSUS someone that doesn't have a choice BUT to do a lot of shopping and eating to fill up their day . (Of course, Disney would NEVER think about filling their parks up with a ridiculous off-balance ratio of shops to attractions to keep people longer in stores and less in lines. Naaaah, never happen )
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^^God, maybe I should just take a break from this area. I'm starting to sound like I think HKDL is just pure EVIL LOL!!! That's not my intent guys. Honestly, I'm hoping to be proven 'wrong' like I wanted to be with DCA and WDSP. Well, it certainly didn't happen with DCA and I'm not holding my breath for WDSP either. I guess the problem is I just came back from DL AND TDL just two weeks ago and even though they have both past some mild stones in age (50 years and 20 years old), they BOTH still had more rides 50 and 20 years ago on opening day than this park has now. I mean, that REALLY bothers me knowing if I go to see this thing, I will be paying the SAME money to go there when I can just opt for a trip to Tokyo and/or L.A. instead. I imagine a lot of the Chinese who has been to either of those parks would have the same mindset with the difference they will pay a lot less to see HKDL, of course WAAAY less if you actually live in Hong Kong . Ignore me, just my rant for the day .
Originally Posted By Mr X You beat me to the punch, Lee, but I also wanted to point out that rides are NOT necessarily the first priority for Asian folks, if TDR is any example. I do disagree that many Japanese "just walk around shopping" all day, though shopping is certainly a big part of a Disney day for them (souvenier purchasing is a facet of nearly any trip or event for a Japanese person, and it's rather fun to get into that spirit in Japan). In addition, I can say with confidence that entertainment is more important to the average TDR guest than attractions. It's possible for many (even non-ap holders, in fact) to spend an entire day at TDR while only checking out 1 or 2 attractions, sometimes none. So anyway, who knows at this point. I tend to doubt that anyone would rather stroll around gardens all day, but then again I wouldn't have believed that people would sit around all day long waiting for one 20 minute character show til I saw the insanity with my own eyes. Bottom line, I don't think anyone would disagree that HKDL needs to do some serious beefing up in the rides department, BUT it seems that the are off to a good start as far as creating a cohesive, beautiful, well themed park which is already a gigantic step ahead of DCA and WDSP.
Originally Posted By fredddy Very interesting this capacity issue. And I must agree with Westsider or World Disney. When this park will open, two things will happen: A) If the park is a big failure, does not attract visitors and is empty (who said DCA?), then, visitors will not wait in long lines, but they will have finished their visit in 5 or 6 hours. It will be a half day park. B) The park is successfull (in its first mounths), it is very busy, and then, yes, it will be then a full day park, but only because people will wait 2 or 3 hours for each ride and that all FP will be gone before 12. People will leave the park exhausted, angry beaucause they only made 4 or 5 rides and waited all day long. Very bad publicity. And people will not come back In both case, the future for this tiny park is not very bright... I can be wrong, but I think this is what will happen...
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>God, maybe I should just take a break from this area<< There he goes upsetting the religious masses again... Way to go WD!! ;P
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< it is very busy, and then, yes, it will be then a full day park, but only because people will wait 2 or 3 hours for each ride and that all FP will be gone before 12. People will leave the park exhausted, angry beaucause they only made 4 or 5 rides and waited all day long. Very bad publicity. And people will not come back >>> "Nobody goes there any more - it's way too crowded!"
Originally Posted By mstaft WorldDisney, thank you for your kind post and your consideration of my feelings. You are a class act. On the subject at hand, I agree with you. I think every Disney park is worth the first visit as well. If nothing else, just to satisfy the curiosity and to judge it after viewing it. The second and repeated visits are what really tell the story. I hope HKDL does do well. I do not remember who first brought this up, but it does seem Disney has learned a bit since DCA and WDSP. The park is very pretty and charming even if light on attractions. Or is it just more difficult to do a Magic Kingdom style park that looks cheap just by the nature of its theme? Is it just that DCA was a newer concept with no clear predecessor that they thought they could get away with cutting corners? And did they take the studios theme so literally that they could cut out the beautiful portions of the Studios before adding it to Paris?Thoughts?
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< But if you are going to drop a nice grand or more when its all said and done for plane, hotels, transportation and everything else, sure I would like to go to a park that has a little more then well placed trees and cute archetecture . I imagine if you are Chinese and you are paying an EXPENSIVE plane ticket from the mainland like Beijing, Xian, Shanhai or whereever, you don't want to spend hours just waiting to ride the carosel once you get there. >>> I suspect that at least initially, HKDL is not planned to be a "destination resort" for very many visitors. Look, it's opening with what, 1200 hotel rooms, and with no non-Disney hotel anyhere nearby? The vast majority of the visitors from the mainland are going to be on package tours. At least as late as the last 90's, it was a mainland gov't requirement that this be the case for mainlanders visiting Hong Kong. These people are very likely to be led around from place to place on busses, with a visit to HKDL being for a portion of their day. That is, the visit will likely be for a good portion of a day, but not necessarily from open to close. And this type of visitor will make up about a third of all visitors according to the projections. None of what I say is meant to justify a sparse roster of attractions - I'm just trying to say that the profile of the average guest is going to be very different than the rest of the parks. It's unlikely that very many people will plan to fly from a long way away *just* to see HKDL, so the notion that many people will pay thousands to get there only to be disappointed will affect only the likes of us hardcore LPers . Also, keep in mind that HK is a tremedous tourist destination already, with tourism already being the #1 or #2 segment of the economy. So, there are tons of people visiting the territory for other reasons, so for them to take a day to go out and see HKDL may be just fine for them.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^^Man, I hate it when people make sense against my arguments . Sure, I agree with all of that and didn't even think about all the package tourists that will have their hand held anyway. Since DL will just be inclusive of their entire tour, it won't feel the same way versus someone else dishing out a ton of cash JUST to see the park. Also true, Hong Kong is a huge tourist destination.....which is why HKDL even exists today. My best friend actually just went to Hong Kong for the first time herself a few weeks ago and REALLY wants to go back there. The fact that she happens to be a Disney fan is even a bigger incentive for her to make the trip again. I won't lie to you, if I didn't like Hong Kong so much (and wasn't there every year myself regardless) I highly doubt I would bother making the trip the first year. But yeah, Hong Kong is such a nice draw, that it's an easy excuse for me. Certainly can't say that about Orlando or Paris . Also, like I said before, Disney is smart enough not to be COCKY about this park like they were with DCA and still have egg on their faces like they are the CIA giving a Iraqi WMD report. The prices are more reasonable and 5.6 million IS a modest attendance when you think that's what DCA got last year and that's still considered pretty bad for a Disney park. So, I will give them credit in THAT regard. But I still think about it, 8 RIDES??? I mean, 8?? Not to mention most of them aren't all that interesting to begin with. At least when TDS and DAK premiered with low ride counts, they put in some really unique attractions and E tickets. But yeah, I know, a lot of Chinese first time at a Disney park, blah, blah, blah since going on rides like Dumbo, the teacups, the rockets and the railroad will all be unique experiences I'm sure. Well, at least Space Mountain and the Jungle Cruise should keep most happy .
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I have to believe there are some huge cultural differences in the way we americans view a Disney theme park, and the way the chinese will. My suspicion is that HKDL will be a success from the get-go, regardless of what Disney fans think about its merits, or lack there-of.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>WorldDisney, thank you for your kind post and your consideration of my feelings. You are a class act<< He is an act alright.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Well, at least Space Mountain and the Jungle Cruise should keep most happy .>> The Jungle Cruise sure will. It is quite incredible.
