Originally Posted By leemac <<I believe its attendance at TDL ranks around the same as at DL but it is definitely less than DLP and DL.>> Idiot. I meant TDL's version ranks around MK.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I know this is kind of random, but I remember readins somewhere, years ago, that the TDL POTC went backwards in the cave part. I have been on it, and I don't really remember it, but it easily could have happened and I just forgot. Am I crazy?
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>Am I crazy?<< Maybe you are but we don't know you personally. >>Idiot<< Don't be so hard on yourself Lee. We all have slips, especially after spending 96.2% of our time at Disney parks around the World. But to be fair... based on my observations... the number of people I see going at POTS at TDL is no less or more than the MK's as well... but then again.. TDL's and MK's POTCs are the two lowest rated in my book so no surprise there. And..davewasbaloo.. as for "Sindbad" at TDS, that remains one of the biggest mysteries of all time since that ride is one of Disney's greatest water dark rides. Positioning of the ride or the character not being associated with Disney (via movie) may be a bit of a disadvantage.. Yet, the line for Sindbad was out the door and started outside the main entrance when I was at TDS a few days ago. The park was packed and the amount of people going thru that area now that next door neighbor "Raging Spirits" is opened, seems to be giving guests a reason to visit this ride again... Of course, that won't be the case once summer passes.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<as for "Sindbad" at TDS, that remains one of the biggest mysteries of all time since that ride is one of Disney's greatest water dark rides.>> Amen to that! I hope I'll see it again someday in the near future.
Originally Posted By mstaft TDLFAN, is there a theme song in Sindbad to add to the atmosphere or any kind of music? With lyrics or just instrumental? I always thought "Yo Ho" added quite a bit to Pirates. Like most photography, I am sure the pics I've seen of the attraction can't do the actual experince justice. One day, one day...
Originally Posted By TDLFAN No, there is no Yo Ho! type song.. Sindbad is storyline driven... Sindbad's AA talks to the audience as you sail by, and there is enough eye candy to entertain you as you travel from one scene to the next. The AA's are technically impressive and so is the entire ride effects and use of color... Totally different feel from the POTC.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>Autopia and water fountains? *Yawn* But hey, it's better than nothing .<< I'd prefer nothing ... leaving what little room there is for something more REAL. From 1 thru 127 .. I'd swears on the precious this is late December 2000 .. with a month to go on DCA. No matter how different the Asian cultures may be .. I don't know how anyone would spend top dollar on milling through gardens. Is this to say the Hong Kong region is nearly devoid of garden areas and public parks where people can walk through rose bushes and such? And are willing to drop a good bucket of their hard earned income to see gardens? No matter what differences there may be - We are all humans with the same sense of logic how to open our pocket books. I am glad to see this "Magic Kingdom" park will be beautiful in details. Will that be enough for the cautious Asian tourist .. and their money? We shall see. I love Westsider's analysis of 30,000 people .. to the ratio of what few rides will be able to handle. This is going to be interesting. Bottom line ..... same arrogance out of Disney corporate halls who ARE SO CONFIDENT they're 5th and lite 'magic kingdom' park is going to be this massive hit. Oh My God! The adding of Autopia really cracks me up. Meanwhile .. take a look at TL overhead with Auto ... and that sure does not leave much room for much in TL's future. TL will be nearly land-locked for much expansion. And highly doubt 4 whopping attractions (Space, Auto, Buzz, Astro-Orbitor) are going to make it for the long haul. Correct me if I'm wrong .. but it seems like all over the new park, not really a heck of a lot of room as been sparred for 5-10-20-30 years into the future.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Oh boy ... .. I need to edit a thought here: From post #1 thru #127 ... this whole topic sounds so chillingly similar to the discussions going on here late December 2000 .. with about a month to go to Disney's California Blunder
Originally Posted By TomSawyer There's a ton of room outside the railroad tracks. Some of the photos from the WDW preview showed faint outlines of future planned expansions beyond the track.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "Problem is, HKDL seems to have very few new offerings." Dave, this is my problem with the park, plain and simple. It appears to b beautiful with lots of amazing little Disney Details. But there is no spinning that will change the fact the opening slate of attractions sucks. And adding Autopia, a kids play/urinating fountain and Sitch talk honestly aren't pushing the envelope. DCA is loaded with attractions, and good ones, when you compare it with this park and we all just love bashing that place!
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "Plus a parade and fireworks and two excellent shows. Why don't anyone ever include those in their lists????" But those are a given. We also don't include the shops and restrooms either. Every MK has shows and parades and fireworks, but they also have attractions. Lots of them. "The parade is not TDL's finest ever show but it is good enough, the fireworks are brand-new and are very good with the smaller shells. Festival of the Lion King is still the best US entertainment product and the Golden Mickeys is also good." The parade looks good and Golden Mickeys is a quality production. I also enjoy the Lion King, but feel DCA's Aladdin is far superior. But even this stuff is recycled ... an old TDL parade from when? 2001-02? a cruise line show and a show that's been at DAK for seven years now. Where's something UNIQUE to this park? And no, the gardens and mountains in the background don't count.
Originally Posted By oc_dean And just my .02 cents .. I just wish the whole "autopia m/k" thing would just die. When Walt planned his Autopia for DL back when DL was first thought of (1951,1952) ... none of Southern California's freeways were open - except for one: The Arroyo Seco Parkway (opened 1940) - now named the Pasadena Freeway. Walt's ride in his FUTURISTIC themed land was already a "yesterland" attraction since the Santa Ana Freeway opened in 1954. A year before the park opened. Along with stretches of the Harbor, Hollywood freeways which opened the same year. The concept of the automobile dates back as far as the 1890s .. the concept of the freeway firmly dated in the 20th century (as early as the 1930s when the Pasadena Freeway was in construction). The argument that Autopia is still futuristic in the eyes of youngens is a weak one ... when the "mk" parks are supposed to be relevant to ALL people who come. And it's the parents with the cash who are going to rule when planning trips. Now ... with 50+ years of automobiles and slow moving traffic on most freeways these days the "mirroring" image of slow moving Autopia putt-putt mobiles mearanding arounding a track seems as antiquated as a Model-T Ford putt-putting around Gower St. in Hollywood when it was still a dirt road. sorry. I'm just one of those who just don't understand why Autopia continues into each "mk" park when "futuristic highways" opened a year before with screamin' 1954 automobiles roaring past Walt's 70 acre kingdom under construction, even well before any construction began for Autopia!! LOL The 1970s "Speedracer" putt-mobiles in WDW and TDL surely don't offer much as a futuristic themed attraction - and DL's Chevron make-over in 2000 is only a throw back. I do wish the space immediately to the right of HKDL's Space Mountain was left for something far more captivating & entertaining in a "23rd Century" sort of way ... instead of some old and dated late "19th Century" sort of way!
Originally Posted By leemac <<But those are a given. We also don't include the shops and restrooms either. Every MK has shows and parades and fireworks, but they also have attractions. Lots of them.>> Not really. How many shows does MK have now? Plus DL and DLP don't have off-season fireworks whilst HKDL will. These may seem minor to you but in a area where they have little idea who Mickey and Winnie-the-Pooh are these are important parts of their day. I keep going back to this but to keep harping on about there needing to be uniqueness is just nonsense. Hardly any of the visitors (probably the lowest proportion of any guests visiting any other resort) will have been or even will know that much about Disneyland. The Disney fan in all of us would like something unique but beyond a very small handful of us who is going to be that bothered about uniqueness. Attraction count is a far more appropriate argument.
Originally Posted By leemac <<But even this stuff is recycled ... an old TDL parade from when? 2001-02?>> In rehearsals the parade itself was quite different (especially the music and choreography). It isn't one of the best TDL parades (Dreams on Parade wins hands-down) but it is all about the history of the Disney name and so is very appropriate for an audience who don't know that much about Walt and Mickey.
Originally Posted By TP2000 I agree with Lee that the uniqueness of the rides in HKDL isn't really an important factor. This isn't a new Disney Park in Texas, where all the customers would have a firm understanding of what Pirates of the Caribbean or Small World is. For the most part, this is a brand new untapped market with literally a Billion future customers waiting to discover what a Disney theme park is. That said, I still feel that there is way too few attractions to entertain these folks when they do finally show up for their first visit to a "Disneyland". While I don't think we can ever realistically expect to see Disney pull off an expensive Disneyland Paris type Park right out of the box, I think Burbank has made a huge blunder here in going too far to the other end of the spectrum and underdelivering. HKDL should have opened with at least two additional thrilling E Tickets (Pirates and maybe Thunder?), and 3 additional C or D Tickets (another dark ride, riverboat, Autopia). 8 rides just don't cut it when you are trying to sell a Billion new customers on a future lifetime of Disneyland and the Walt Disney Company.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Well I kind of hear you. Though remember, in the golden envelope of Disney theme park development, they were always trying to take attractions to the next level, learning from previous experiences and developing for the benefits of all parks. With the possible exception of Philharmagic and Autopia, this does not seem to be the case any longer. For tis, I am truly saddened.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney "Problem is, HKDL seems to have very few new offerings." <<Dave, this is my problem with the park, plain and simple. It appears to b beautiful with lots of amazing little Disney Details. But there is no spinning that will change the fact the opening slate of attractions sucks. And adding Autopia, a kids play/urinating fountain and Sitch talk honestly aren't pushing the envelope. DCA is loaded with attractions, and good ones, when you compare it with this park and we all just love bashing that place!>> Wow, you said it so much better then I ever could . You know, just use MY handle from now on when making these points. They will be much clearer and typed out as if by someone who is sober .
Originally Posted By jmuboy To add to post 137, look at DL Paris for example (Big Thunder, Main St Arcades, Phantom Manor, Pirates, Space Mt) to see examples of Disney taking rides to the next level and making them EVEN better. I am hoping the Pirates and IASW rides if/when added to HKDL will have some unique qualities. Although I don't see copying the Paris Pirates for HKDL (complete with great outdoor "beach" and Blue lagoon restaurant) as a bad thing.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<I keep going back to this but to keep harping on about there needing to be uniqueness is just nonsense. Hardly any of the visitors (probably the lowest proportion of any guests visiting any other resort) will have been or even will know that much about Disneyland. The Disney fan in all of us would like something unique but beyond a very small handful of us who is going to be that bothered about uniqueness. Attraction count is a far more appropriate argument.>> I agree, it's not so much about uniqueness or originality with this park and its attractions, but it IS about them being GOOD and ENOUGH of them . Again, outside you have 4 decent-to-good attractions such as SM, Philharmagic, Jungle Cruise and Buzz and the others are just basic carnival rides like the teacups, Dumbo and etc. Sure, classic rides that people love, but they really are JUST filler attractions. This is the stuff you ride BETWEEN the bigger attractions. In this park, because there are so few of them, EVERYTHING should be considered a must-see in a way, but half of them aren't at all. When TDS opened, it only had about 16 ride attractions, but 5 of them were big E-tickets and the other 5 were smaller attractions such as the Venetian Gondolas, Aquatopia, Electric Railway and the rest more for children (like the stuff in Mermaid Lagoon). Of course, that doesn't count the 8 LIVE shows there, the 3D Magic Lamp theater, Fireworks (which sucks, but whatever) and the Exploration Fortress. In total, TDS opened with nearly 30 attractions.....30!!! With the exception of Indiana Jones, all completely original stuff, but with all that said, people complained there isn't that much to do there. HKDL will have around half that, about 15 attractions. Mentioning "attractions" such as City Hall, the Tarzan Rafts ("Mommy, can we do it AGAIN???) and Snow White Grotto is an insult to intelligent people everywhere . The shows actually seem fun though although, yes, a lot of them are from other Disney parks, but yes, it will be the first time of seeing these shows for many people, so I have no problems with that. Again, people could spin this stuff all they want, but this is an INCREDIBLY low count of attractions for ANY theme park, especially an MK park that is suppose to set the standard in China. Again, even though it isn't an excuse, half-day parks like AK and MGM can get away with it when they are in a HUGE resort with park hopping features. This park is suppose to stand clearly on its own feet, but how can it when they already shot themselves in the foot in so many ways?
