Originally Posted By fkurucz Another thought ... With the middle class slowly but steadily crumbling away it is no small surprise that corporations (like Disney) would refocus their efforts at targeting those who still can afford to purchases "wants" (as oppoosed to "needs") such as a pricey Disney vacation?
Originally Posted By standor Disney still needs the middle income people. They can't fill up WDW with the affluent. The total money every day people spend is what keeps disney afloat. Like I always have said, IF WE KEEP AWAY IN DROVES THEN DISNEY WILL SEE THINGS OUR WAY AND CATER MORE TO US. I used to go every 3 years and stay for 10 days on the grounds, but because they refuse to accept the fact that we want to enjoy the place and expect new attractions and have a clean and safe environment, I refuse to return. Don't get me wrong. I love the place but I refuse to be taken advantage of. Everybody should boycot the disney parks until they change their ways.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Disney still needs the middle income people. They can't fill up WDW with the affluent. The total money every day people spend is what keeps disney afloat.>> Given what is happening with the recent changes at Club 33 in Anaheim, I'm not certain that's the case anymore. Club 33 is drastically increasing their membership dues, which means only the affluent will be able to join from here on. C33 will be able to reduce the number of members and their guests who dine there each day, which in turn will allow them to reduce operational and maintenance costs for the restaurant. They will be able to keep their existing profit margin if not increase it, while reducing the labor force and wear-and-tear on the C33 infrastructure, with fewer diners. I'm beginning to believe that this is the new ops model for all of P&R. By increasing pricing and focusing on the affluent, Disney will be able to shift the cost burden from maintaining a high number of value and moderate rooms for large numbers of middle class vacationers, to maintaining a lower number of moderate and premium rooms for more affluent vacationers. And having a lower number of rooms to service and maintain means Disney can lower their overall operational costs. Shuttering entire wings in the value and moderate resorts would save Disney tons of cash that could be spent on expanding and renewing the premium resorts. Operating less crowded parks would save plenty on the constant reparations of aging infrastructure, as well as save plenty on the need for onstage cast members. Increasing the number of hard ticket special events is a more effective way of growing the bottom line than opening up more value resorts and attempting to increase daily attendance during regular operating hours. What Disney is doing unfortunately makes sense from a fiscal standpoint. Their infrastructure is too old to not need major ongoing refurbishment from here on. The easiest way to keep from breaking the bank with those repairs is to reduce the wear-and-tear on that infrastructure by reducing its heavy use. That means a reduction in attendance, which can only be achieved without a subsequent loss in revenue by increasing pricing and reducing operational costs. And only the affluent visitors to WDW will tolerate such increases. That's why Disney is now hyperfocused on this demographic.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I see this as Disney trying to reclaim the image of a high-end vacation destination that it had in the past. Before the Moderates and Values were built at WDW staying on-site was limited to those who were fairly affluent. All transportation between the resorts and parks was via boat or monorail... buses did not exist. Before Extra Magic Hours if you wanted to enjoy the parks with reduced crowds you had to pay for the privilege on E-Ride Nights. Before the Dining Plan many of the people who currently clog the table service restaurants were limited by finances to dining at the counter service places. I think that maybe Disney has realized that by making the on-site experience available to a wider financial demographic they have reduced the experience available to their more affluent guests. This seems to be an attempt to change that and I don't necessarily feel it is a bad thing.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I think that maybe Disney has realized that by making the on-site experience available to a wider financial demographic they have reduced the experience available to their more affluent guests.>> This is how I see the Club 33 situation as well, RT. Given how much the pricing has soared at DL over the past decade, what C33 members pay annually in comparison to what they receive is a bargain (that is, before the changes now taking effect). It slowly lost its affluent status as Disney pricing outside C33 increased far faster than within. You didn't have to be rich to be a Club 33 member anymore. Season tickets to major league baseball became far more expensive than C33 membership. These changes were inevitable. <<This seems to be an attempt to change that and I don't necessarily feel it is a bad thing.>> Actually, I don't, either. As an infrequent visitor to WDW who is forced to book no sooner than one month in advance, I absolutely detest the DDP. I haven't been able to enjoy a meal in a nice sit-down restaurant like Coral Reef since 2005. And even then, I had to wait for close to an hour for a table, after peak meal time. While the service was still good, the food was far less in quality than I had experienced at CR, several years prior. I firmly believe the dining program has only made this situation worse, not improved it. Disney needs to return to the high-end vacation status if it wants to remain profitable. The more they try to maximize attendance, the less enjoyable the parks and resorts become. I don't want to spend a small fortune for a vacation where I have to book reservations up to six months in advance, and where I have to stand in long lines for everything I do, from bus stops to resort food courts to even the bathrooms in the parks. It's simply not worth my time and energy for what it costs.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom You have several things going on at the same time. First off DL is not WDW. DL couldn't dream of pricing tickets at the WDW cost. No Disney park around the globe can match the expense of day passes at WDW. There is a big difference between Disney offering an exclusive upscale restaurant experience with offering a primere "safari" like experience with it's own show buildings and vehicles. furthermore, I see the contruction of Moderate and Value resorts coupled with the inclusion of the DDP as a bold attempt on Disney's part to meet the growing desire for all inclusive vacation packages. Disney learned an awful lot from the cruise ship industry during the 80s. They learned that a growing percentage of vacationers desired all inclusive vacations. Where all the vacationer has to do is pay (in advance) and show up, everything else is provided for. Disney also has their eggs in many different baskets. They are not dependent on folks in the USA to fill their parks. There are plenty of other people coming in from all over the globe. They are not just dependent on folks flying to their parks. There are plenty of people driving to the parks. Don't believe me? Just look at any parking lot at any Disney Value resort. What Disney is intresed in is maximizing their profits. Getting more for offering less. Less soda, less ammenities, less frequent new attractions, less shows, fewer hours of monorail service. Fewer attractions, more restaurants, and gift shops, half built ( and filled ) parks. It is all about offering less.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 "I think many of us feel that there seems to be less creativity and amazing stuff being considered than some of these simplistic extra-cost add-on experiences " I actually don't disagree with you..however I don't believeit is one OR the other- they could do both easily- for whatever reason.ranging from financial investment to laziness..they have chosen not to. The other thing that never gets mentioned- what IF, anf I stess IF, the creative genuis stockpile many of us think they have, really doesn't exist to that level any more ?
Originally Posted By leobloom >> The other thing that never gets mentioned- what IF, anf I stess IF, the creative genuis stockpile many of us think they have, really doesn't exist to that level any more ? << We have a winner. I suspect you're absolutely right. The creative genius stockpile is WDI archive with drawings and ideas the old guard kicked around.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<>> The other thing that never gets mentioned- what IF, anf I stess IF, the creative genuis stockpile many of us think they have, really doesn't exist to that level any more ? << We have a winner. I suspect you're absolutely right. The creative genius stockpile is WDI archive with drawings and ideas the old guard kicked around.>> And part of that is the times. What do the schools teach that WDI draws from today? Computer graphics, computer animation and interactive electronic games. What type of attractions do you THINK we would get from those folks? How many of them learn anything about the electric motors and hydraulics that drive Audio-Animatronics? Maybe WDI needs to hire some people with HVAC training... at least they know about that stuff!!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I don't need the perfect ride. I like the fact that many of Disney's rides are hokie. I would just settle for a new ride at this point. When "new" means rehashing Captian EO or flipping back to the original Tiki bird show that is not saying much. At this point I would just like to see Mickey and the Dragon back in Fantasmic.
Originally Posted By CDF2 The concept of the all-inclusive resort package is certainly one which has become more and more relevant in today's tourism marketplace. Given the number of resort properties and ticketing/meal plan options Disney can offer you would expect that they could set up a wide variety of packages that might fit most every budget. And I am sure they would find willing partners in some of the airlines to help ensure flights to/from Orlando are full all of the time. So perhaps that is one of the major areas that WDW management will focus upon going forward.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<The other thing that never gets mentioned- what IF, anf I stess IF, the creative genuis stockpile many of us think they have, really doesn't exist to that level any more ?>> Never gets mentioned? I mention it all the time. WDI is filled with creatively lacking folks who are there because they kissed the most ass. There are some good people in the division, no doubt. But the majority are there to stroke their own ego.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub I know Virgin Holiday offered an incredible Package for Universal/Harry Potter tourists! I also can remember when it was a big deal to travel the official airlines to Walt Disney World!
Originally Posted By Manfried <<WDI is filled with creatively lacking folks who are there because they kissed the most ass. There are some good people in the division, no doubt. But the majority are there to stroke their own ego.>> They've created (and I use that term very loosely) their own title. "Show Producer." Tell me when a "Show Producer" actually did something creative?
Originally Posted By CDF2 Who was the driving force behind the Journey to the Center of the Earth and new 20000 Leagues attractions at DisneySea? Are they still around at WDI? I believe it was Joe Rodhe who was the guy behind Expedition Everest, correct? What's he up to? Is Tony Baxter still involved? Isn't he working on the updates to the Matterhorn at DLR? There must still be some creative people there .........
Originally Posted By HMButler79 Um, TWO old school Imagineers does not make current WDI. Your telling me the hacks that gave us the MASTEPIECES of Superstar Limo, DinoRama, Journey Into Imagination 2.0 and 3.0, Stitch's Great Escape, Toy Story Mania, Seas With Nemo, the Spaceship Earth redo, the MK HN enchancements, New Fantasyland are TALENTED??
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<I believe it was Joe Rodhe who was the guy behind Expedition Everest, correct? What's he up to?>> Rodhe is seriously overrated by the fan community, IMO. With that being said, he's probably working on Avatar plans right now.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Toy Story Mania, Seas With Nemo, the Spaceship Earth redo, the MK HN enchancements, New Fantasyland are TALENTED?? >> I approve of TSM, absolutely approve of Nemo, I'm neutral on SE, I have no problem with the Fantasyland reclaimation project... just wish they did it 20 years sooner.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom As for the queue enhancements... I like Pooh, but not really sold on HM. So... I think it is sort of hit or miss on a few things.....
