Originally Posted By wonderingalice <------ Is looking forward to seeing the photos of the spruced up Mark Twain.
Originally Posted By topdisneymom Will they have a fastpass for the subs or is it not possibly to have one?
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt ^^I certainly hope they do. However, if they do install the system, the standby line will be even more horrendous, and the Fastpasses will be sold out within the first few hours of park opening. Look for plenty of griping either way.
Originally Posted By topdisneymom Thanks Darkbeer, that's too bad because I remember when it was just the old sub ride the line was always incredibly long.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I'm still hoping to hear 'inside dirt' on show scenes within the attraction.
Originally Posted By Elderp No FP for the Subs, if it is really as good as they say it is going to be it's going to be a line disaster. It will be just like back in 1995 when Indy came out. I am not looking forward to it. It isn't like the rush to TL at rope drop isn't bad enough.
Originally Posted By CMM1 Funny how one of the excuses for the subs being "terminated" was low capacity and now they bring the ride back. No Fastpass huh? I guess those of us who feel that Fastpass should only be available on selected attractions will be able to see how the flow goes with a traditional "long line" attraction like the subs (simply takes a lot of time to move guests in and out of the subs on a circuit-type ride). It will also be interesting to see how a more formalized or scripted form of attraction works on TSI - if you want to look for buried treasure, is there a line (where would it be? - they probably don't have a lot of space for lines on TSI and/or it might look funny to see a line of people on the island when looking across at it from the shoreline)
Originally Posted By topdisneymom I have never seen that line for the subs short, even at the end of its life
Originally Posted By bhb007 My consipiracy theory? DL has been suffering from overcrowding for a bunch of reasons over the last 10-15 years (new attractions, increased AP's, FastPass, etc.). A popular ride with a LONG, SLOW line and no fastpasses will essentially take 12000 people (if the numbers are correct about the subs) off the grid and theoretically free up movement for the rest of the park. Plus, with no fast pass, there is an incentive to arrive early and stay late (when lines theoretically might be a bit shorter). It seems to me that the ineffeciency of the subs has ironically become their selling point.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Yes, Disneyland feels much more crowded these days, doesn't it? My theory is that it's because of several reasons. Maybe it's partly the addition fastpass, more AP's and guests in general, and fewer people-eating attractions. Disneyland lost big people eaters like the Peoplemover, the subs, maybe even the motorboat cruise (yeah, I know, small potatoes...but it's one less attraction). I just think that the more attractions added to Disneyland the better to keep the pathways clearer and feeling less like a big mosh pit.
Originally Posted By monorailblue <<No FP for the Subs, if it is really as good as they say it is going to be it's going to be a line disaster. >> IMHO, you could not be more wrong. If it is as good as they say it is going to be, everyone will be thrilled to have ridden. If it *isn't* that good, that word will spread quickly, and the line will shorten. It's a manifestation of the free market--very, very quickly, the line stabilizes to the point where the Guest body as a whole has decided it should be. Indiana Jones had very, very long lines when it opened and for a very long time thereafter, but that is precisely because everyone in those lines determined that it was worth the time and effort. For Indy, this was helped greatly by the fact that the line moved and was managed very well, and the queue area is very interesting to pass through. If the subs are fabulous, the lines will be very long. It is only "too long" if Guests feel it wasn't worth it. If the Guest feels the experience was truly of "E-ticket" caliber, they think it was worth it. Either way, it is no disaster at all. (Aside: FMP: a line disaster is a long line in a place where there is no space for it, and without adequate Guest Control. Pirates was a bit of a disaster when it came back up from the Sparrow rehab, though the Park got it under control quickly. Splash still has unbelievably long standby lines in the summer, but no one would ever think of call that a "line disaster.")
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Indiana Jones had very, very long lines when it opened and for a very long time thereafter" Yeah, but Indy has much higher capacity than the Subs. The biggest gripe everyone will have about the Subs won't be how long the line is but how slow moving it will be.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Not all guests are the same. Some are APers who visit park weekly or more. They apparently have nothing better to do with their time, and might be more likely to wait in a three hour queue - after all, they're just standing around doing nothing anyway, so why not stand around in line? Other guests have traveled further distances and may only visit once a year, or once every few years. A three hour plus line is much more impactful to them. While still other guests are travelling with small children. These children may dearly want to see the new nemo attaction, but it's unreasonable to expect them to patiently stand in line for three hours to do it. They won't understand. So my concern is that the line will be perenially clogged up with disney's least valued guests, making it more difficult for the short-timers. This isn't a slam on APers, just an objective assessment of the differing priorities within the guest "sub-sets" - no pun intended.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster I highly doubt the line for the Subs will be slower moving than any standby line at a FastPass attraction.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "I highly doubt the line for the Subs will be slower moving than any standby line at a FastPass attraction." It will be. If you rode the orginal Submarine Voyage you'll recall that the line was painfully slow. And it rarely ever extended beyond the Monorail Station even when the attraction was popular.
Originally Posted By Dlmusic One thing about the line that nobody is talking about is how little "real estate" the line will have to take up. For example the 4 hour Indiana Jones line snaked it's way through Adventureland, Frontierland than onto Main Street. Since the Submarine Voyage only has half the capacity of Indiana Jones the same line would be over 8 hours long. There comes a point when people just aren't willing to wait in lines, and that usually seems to be in the 3-4 hour wait for a new attraction. In other words, for the Submarine Voyage line can have half the people in it than the other E-tickets usually do. I would imagine that if the line extended out from the entrance and around over to the off road section of Autopia, that would be already in the 3 hour line window. So I don't think crowd control is going to be an issue so much as the slow moving line getting people aggravated.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "So I don't think crowd control is going to be an issue so much as the slow moving line getting people aggravated." My thought exactly.
Originally Posted By monorailblue But the point is, if no one thinks it is worth it, the line will NOT be long. If the line STAYS long, it will ONLY be because people think it IS worth it. No catastrophe of any kind.
