Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "The Jewish and christian cm's should file a complaint against her saying they are offended by her religious display." Disneyland remakes most of the parks in observance of a Christian holiday. The Christmas fireworks show includes an instrumental version of Silent Night. A retelling of the Christmas story happens every year. You can even get reservations. With all of the consideration that Christians receive, why are we getting bent out of shape over a head scarf?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan It may seem a strange comparison, but what if she wanted to be a hostess at Hooters? It seems that they can legally hire only females of a certain description to wait tables there because it is all part of their corporate image/culture. But if a Hooters waitress wanted to deviate from the costume and wear a head scarf, could she? (Actually, she probably could because customers at Hooters wouldn't be looking at her head.) And what about women who wear burkas? While they're not likely to apply at Hooters, should a woman in a full burka be allowed to hostess at Storytellers?
Originally Posted By disneyfn Seems to me Aunt Jemimia use to wear a scarf when she worked at Disneyland.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "While they're not likely to apply at Hooters, should a woman in a full burka be allowed to hostess at Storytellers?" There's only one way to find out! However, covering the face would probably impact person-to-person customer service in a very real way. A headscarf does not cover the face and does not take anything away from the experiencing of receiving good service from a pleasant person in a decorated setting.
Originally Posted By hbquikcomjamesl > It shouldn't bother anyone but the > righteously xenophobic Uh, Spokker, do you perchance mean, "SELF-righteously xenophobic"? "Righteously xenophobic" sounds as oxymoronic as "jumbo shrimp," "military intelligence," or "civil war." More seriously, RIGHT ON. Religious (and even cultural) clothing, so long as it involves a deep-seated belief, or a deep-seated part of the person's identity, and doesn't impact one's ability to perform the work at hand, deserves special protection. The dress codes at Disney theme parks and hotels have always been intended to project a certain image. An image of wholesomeness. That's why, for many years, all male CMs were required to be cleanshaven, even though Walt himself had a mustache for most of his adult life: from the 50s through the 70s, facial hair had certain disreputable and counter-cultural associations. In general, the goal is to avoid having CMs look slovenly, or criminal, or like hippies, drug addicts, or the sort of low-lifes generally associated with pre-Disney amusement facilities. I fail to see how an article of clothing that simply expresses one's religion or culture conflicts with that.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "One thing is not like the other." They are the same in that they are both entities hiring staff to work for them on payroll. Does an employer have the right to establish and enforce a dress code or not? "The point is what legal right does the employer (theater company, Disney, or otherwise) have to enforce a specific uniform dress code?" >>That's for the courts to decide if this goes to trial.<< My guess is that it probably won't go to trial because unless she can show that Disney is specifically discriminating against her she has no case.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Uh, Spokker, do you perchance mean, "SELF-righteously xenophobic"?" Yup. Thank you for clarifying. "An image of wholesomeness." There is nothing unwholesome about a headscarf. "I fail to see how an article of clothing that simply expresses one's religion or culture conflicts with that." Christian people generally don't wear stuff on their head in connection with their religious observance so perhaps this is foreign to them, but an employer would be required to make accommodations so that an employee could attend church on Sunday. The employer can stamp their feet and say that it affects employee morale or that they are really understaffed, but they could not do anything about it. Nor can the employer say that none of his or her employees can receive accommodation for attending any religious ceremony. Jews can't observe the sabbath. Christians can't attend church on Sunday. Muslims cannot turn to Mecca in the break room. And since I am being fair to all, this is okay and not discriminatory. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. They will all be accommodated if the belief is sincere and if they want accommodation.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Does an employer have the right to establish and enforce a dress code or not?" As long as it complies with Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, yes. "My guess is that it probably won't go to trial because unless she can show that Disney is specifically discriminating against her she has no case." Christian cast members are provided an opportunity to sing in what is basically a church choir at the Candlelight Processional every year. They are volunteers, but it is a benefit for those employees and it is sponsored by the company. In light of this, making accommodation to wear a headscarf on stage is not unreasonable. It is a piece of clothing. It is nothing to fear.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "It may seem a strange comparison, but what if she wanted to be a hostess at Hooters? It seems that they can legally hire only females of a certain description to wait tables there because it is all part of their corporate image/culture. But if a Hooters waitress wanted to deviate from the costume and wear a head scarf, could she?" This is a good question. "Religious (and even cultural) clothing, so long as it involves a deep-seated belief, or a deep-seated part of the person's identity, and doesn't impact one's ability to perform the work at hand, deserves special protection." Likewise isn't a business's rights to protect and promote its corporate image through employee appearance, uniforms, and costuming protected as well?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt >>"Does an employer have the right to establish and enforce a dress code or not?"<< "As long as it complies with Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, yes" Got it. I found this memo from a California law firm, which discusses dress code enforcement: <a href="http://www.rwglaw.com/pdf/DressCode.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.rwglaw.com/pdf/DressCode.pdf</a> "Dress codes may not infringe on religious beliefs, discriminate based on disability, encourage sexual harassment, or infringe on rights protected under FEHA or Title VII. Common challenges include charges that the dress code discriminates on the basis of sex or gender, race, ethnicity and national origin, disability, and religion. Key distinctions have been drawn by the legislature and courts on these bases, although the law remains unclear in specific cases. “Head coverings: prohibitions against wearing head coverings, such as veils, turbans, burkas, yarmulkes, and the like may be struck down as discriminating on the basis of, for example, religion. More general policies that would otherwise prohibit such head covering may require accommodation.” “Accommodations and exceptions: if a facially neutral dress and grooming standard infringes upon protected rights, the employer must generally evaluate the nature of the employee’s protected status and whether insisting upon compliance with the rule would significantly burden the employee in employment. Typically, the employer must make reasonable accommodations or exceptions unless there is a business necessity or adherence to the standard is required by safety regulations.”
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Interview with the Muslim lady. <a href="http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/dishney/imane-boudlal-disney-hijab-mus/" target="_blank">http://blogs.ocweekly.com/nave...jab-mus/</a> "The only accommodation they made was to work in the back. I didn't find that reasonable at all. I couldn't be with the customers. I've always been dealing with guests and I love it. I'm that kind of person that likes to talk to people from different countries. I enjoy coming into work every day because of that." It sounds like they lost a good cast member.
Originally Posted By Ursula This just makes me so mad. I'm sorry, but I went through Disneyland training when I became a Cast Member. The amount of time they spend stressing us out out the Disney Look and how we had to meausure our earrings to make sure they were the right size told me they were looking for a role for me to play. I had to make sure I had one ring per hand (unless married with a wedding set). One watch. Once bracelet, but it had to be small and tasteful. No eyeliner. A certain color/shade of make-up. I couldn't even dye my hair an outlandish color of bright red. I couldn't even have long fingernails. Guess what? This was 21 years ago and I remember it all clearly, so they must have stressed this a lot, yes? Also, I had multiple ear piercings that I had to take out DAILY or I couldn't work my shift. I also had to be mindful of my many necklaces (I had to remove them). These items made me ME. Just as her headdress makes her HER. Remove it, girlfriend. You are playing a part, honey. You are a CAST member. Act. Play the part or get another job. Don't you EVEN tell me she can get away with pleading the religious headdress thing. It isn't possible that she didn't know this was a rule. It doesn't fit the part and does NOT belong on stage.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Also, I had multiple ear piercings that I had to take out DAILY or I couldn't work my shift. I also had to be mindful of my many necklaces (I had to remove them)." Are your gaudy ear piercings protected under Title VII? Probably not. The original Disney Look was born out of a desire for an all-American look which basically means white. I find it odd that with all the crowing Disney does about diversity, a headscarf is such an affront to the silly little theme of Storytellers Cafe, which really feels like a more expensive Marie Calender's to me. In this case, Disney should make It's a Small World mean something and allow the scarf. There is no negative impact at all. Early settlers of this nation escaped religious persecution. Now we want to impose religious persecution. Perhaps I should be glad, though. This Muslim stuff seems to be taking the heat off of Latinos. Phew. I can rest a little easier now.
Originally Posted By Ursula I'm not religious so I'm certainly not giving a rat's behind about persecution of wearing a scarf. I don't care about religion. It doesn't fit the look or the rules she was given on day 1 of her employment. It is now a few years later and NOW she's raising her hand? My gaudy ear piercings? How rude of you. I still have them. They are what makes me ME, again, just as her headscarf makes them her. Tell me the difference, quick!
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "I found this memo from a California law firm, which discusses dress code enforcement:" Good find. This is why this is not an open and shut case and not a "Disney can do whatever it wants" situation. There is a very real question here and it is not a frivolous lawsuit. If a judge sides with Disney I'll respect that. I'll also be less likely to go to Disneyland and more likely to visit a competitor that would allow the woman to wear a headscarf. It would be interesting if another company invites her to work for them. Does Universal or Cedar Fair want to step up and one up Disney?
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Tell me the difference, quick!" Religious tradition and protection under the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "It doesn't fit the look or the rules she was given on day 1 of her employment." The Disney Look is based on an "all-American," all-white, all-Christian type of appearance. Christians don't traditionally wear headgear, for example, so it was never included in the Disney look. If Christians wore some kind of thing on their head all the time, that would have been accounted for. If we are to live up to the ideals this country was founded on, and if Disney wanted to live up to its diversity mission, the Disney Look should reasonably accommodate things like headscarves and yarmulkes. I put all-American in quotes because I believe that her headscarf is in fact as American as apple pie.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The original Disney Look was born out of a desire for an all-American look which basically means white." There are plenty of white Muslims, so that isn't quite accurate. This is a very interesting topic to me because I understand Spokker's point that her right to wear the head wrap is protected by law, yet I believe that a business ought to have a right to dictate what the appropriate attire is for its employees. If this individual is such a "good" cast member then surely she knew and understood the rules as outlined by Ursula before she adopted her new religion. Disney attracts hordes of customers from its reputation for setting a recognizable atmosphere at its parks and resorts through architecture, music, costuming, etc. When those standards slip or change people often notice. How many times has it been pointed out in these discussion over the years that cast member uniform standards have visibly deteriorated in recent years? Sure, there's no measurable damage done by allowing this this lady's headdress "on stage", but likewise what harm is there in her taking it removing it while performing her tasks?
Originally Posted By hopemax Kar2oonMan said... > I wonder if Disney provided her with material that matched the rest of the Storytellers cast member uniforms, and she made a head scarf from that, could both sides live with that accommodation? Her uniform would be in-theme and she'd have her head fully covered.< In the CBS article about this, it says that Disney was working on this. <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/19/national/main6786918.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...18.shtml</a> >She asked her supervisors if she could wear the scarf and was told they would consult with the corporate office, Qazi said. Boudlal didn't hear anything for two months and was then told she could wear a head scarf, but it had to be designed by Disneyland's costume department to comply with the Disney look, Qazi said. She was fitted for a Disney-supplied head scarf but was not given a date when the garment would be finished and was told she couldn't wear her own hijab in the interim.<
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Other than the slowness in the creation of the custom made scarf, I don't understand what the problem is.
