Originally Posted By Mr X ***Upon hire she obviously understood and willingly excepted the fact that Disney requires all employees to follow a certain dress/costume. Now all of the sudden she she has a problem? Follow the rules written for everyone or go pound the pavement!*** What about someone who has a religious conversion, would you insist they lose their jobs over it?
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones If people were free to wear their headscarfs, turbans, yarmulkes, relgious beards that offer magic powers at work, you would barely notice anyway. The country is 76% Christian. There is no takeover going on.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***By the way, aren't DL employees called CAST MEMBERS. And HR is called CASTING. And the employees are part of a CAST, and therefore be dressed accordingly?*** That's just Disney corporate-speak. They are no more "cast members" than the kid down the street flipping burgers at McDonalds. And to show just how nonsensical that whole thing is, even the "backstage" employees are called "cast members". Funny, I don't think that's what they call the costuming lady and the stage hands on Broadway.
Originally Posted By debtee I think this is all grandstanding by this woman, for her own agenda. I worked for Disney for 5 years and the contract you sign on employment, is very clear about what can and can't be worn "on Stage". No visual Tattoo's, no facial hair, no piercings etc. The list is quite long and very strict. That's part of the deal of working for the Mouse!
Originally Posted By ecdc Overall I think spokker has really nailed this one. The majority always expects the minority to capitulate under the notion of, "What's the big deal?" I guarantee if this were a convert to Christianity wanting to wear a cross, the outrage would be felt far and wide. Perhaps not by some here, who are big Disney fans and understand the expectations of the company, but elsewhere the response would be, "Now in America you can't even wear a cross to work!" I would correct one point: Companies are not required to give time off for Sunday for worship services. We make it very clear where I work (a call center...livin' the dream!) before people a hired that they may have to work Sundays and there's no guarantee time will be available for vacation, etc., to get it off. There's definitely legitimate room for discussion around the individual right of expression vs the company right to set standards, but on this one Disney has it wrong. Besides, isn't a multi-cultural message part of the spirit of what Disney's all about?
Originally Posted By Mr X ec, how they heck are ya!? I started a whole topic for ya in WE, please do check it out if you have a sec.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Yeah, ecdc - it looks like DAR has flown the coop. No sense in you both being gone. <Look, SHE'S bringing religion into it but it has nothing to do with religion. She wants to wear something she wants to wear that is outside of the dress code. Just as I wanted to wear something outside of the dress code. Do you get it now? This isn't a religious issue just because she says it is.> And I would respectfully say that it isn't NOT a religious issue just because you say it isn't. Multiple ear piercings are not a part of any religion I know of. A head scarf for an Islamic woman certainly is. And I say this as someone who tends to see these scarfs, if anything, as a symbol of patriarchy and keeping women "in their place," but then again I'm not Muslim. I've heard many Muslim women say they prefer to wear one, they're paradoxically "liberating" (like school uniforms, sort of), and an expression of faith. I don't get it, and think maybe they've internalized the misogyny, but then again I'm not Muslim so it's a hard one for me. But certainly a head scarf for a woman is a well-known feature of Islam, and is not the same thing as wishing to wear multiple piercings because you like them - it is in fact a religious thing, and as such it seems to me addressed by title 7.
Originally Posted By FaMulan My question is this: She has been working for Disney for more than TWO YEARS, so why is she making an issue of this NOW. Also, I believe the law states that she be offered a similar grade job in another area if she won't comply and she was. She refused and was sent home instead of working. And no, a hijab does not equate to a necklace bearing a cross or star of David. Those can be small, unobtrusive and given the rising tides of anti-Muslim sentiment which I find ludicrous, unoffensive and tucked under the costume top. A full head covering cannot be as discreet.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>My question is this: She has been working for Disney for more than TWO YEARS, so why is she making an issue of this NOW.<< My understanding is she's a recent convert. But even if she's not, a lot of people rediscover their faith after an absence or lack of practice. The whole Christian notion of returning to the fold, the prodigal son, etc. Telling her to work in the back is pretty offensive, IMO. The message is clear: Your religious symbol has no place in front of our guests. Can no one really see why she might take exception to that? And to avoid the obvious retort, no one is saying "anything goes." We're not defending a profanity-laden t-shirt here, but a benign headscarf with deep cultural roots and significance to the wearer.
Originally Posted By ecdc BTW, it's funny that three avowed atheists are the ones defending this woman
Originally Posted By hopemax > I guarantee if this were a convert to Christianity wanting to wear a cross, the outrage would be felt far and wide. < But crosses ARE banned by the Disney look. And you haven't heard any outrage have you?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Exactly. Let's not turn this into a Muslim vs. Christianity thing. It's coincidental that her scarf is a religious symbol, and thus her right to expression on the job is potentially protected by law. Clearly Disney has an issue with it not because management has anything against Islam, buy because it conflicts with the company's dress code. The one thing that seems suspect to me is Disney's slowness in offering her a suitable head covering.
Originally Posted By -em >> The one thing that seems suspect to me is Disney's slowness in offering her a suitable head covering.<< Disney costuming moves at its own pace and often beats to its own drummer. -em < who has been waiting on a replacement name tag I ordered 3 weeks ago and keeps being told "any day now"
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt See, and without an understanding and knowledge of the inner workings of the company (ie: notoriously slow delivery of costume items and accessories), it's very easy for people on the outside to jump to conclusions.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "We make it very clear where I work (a call center...livin' the dream!) before people a hired that they may have to work Sundays and there's no guarantee time will be available for vacation, etc., to get it off." It's possible that everyone you hired was either fine with that arrangement or did not know their legal rights. Many people in this country identify with a religion, but they are not hardcore about it anymore, so the issue may have simply not come up. I believe you can make someone work Sundays, but you may be required to offer Sunday morning off, if they request it. There's no discrimination until the employee notifies the employer.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "But crosses ARE banned by the Disney look. And you haven't heard any outrage have you?" Someone could certainly challenge it and let a judge decide. Many Americans are apathetic about their religion these days.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Apathetic, or simply willing to abide by reasonable rules? Look, I don't disagree with protecting religious expression, at least in principle, but I think this particular issue is something that could easily be remedied with some sort of compromise without hardship for her and allow Disney to uphold its trademark appearance standards.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>It's possible that everyone you hired was either fine with that arrangement or did not know their legal rights.<< It's a Fortune 100 company. Legal's taken a looksie at it, trust me And in this community, we get many people who turn down the job due to the Sunday requirement. The courts have ruled on this particular issue; as long as companies provide a reasonable expectations and potential options to take Sunday off - shift trades, vacation days, etc., then they're on solid legal ground. They are under no obligation to work around a specific worship service schedule.
