Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Good JOB, WilliamK99! Dredging this thread up right now was a stroke of genious!
Originally Posted By TINK-MOBILE glad someone found out what really was happening, we just love the attraction, it is so cool...
Originally Posted By oc_dean I'll bet a dollar William drudged this up only to try to point out that some of us are crazy Purists who get worked up for nothing .. as everything will magically work out in the end. The differences are so vast ... it does not take much to understand some fundamental differences between the two rides. The difference between the additions to Potc ... is the movie characters that spawned from the movies ...at least thematically blend in. They are pirates, take place the same time period in which the ride takes place in. Where's with 'it's a small world' .. it resonates with some very real life themes that are not based in fantasy. The Disney cartoon characters ARE Fantasy. As I see it .... there's a clash. Because of the inherent design of 'it's a small world' ... there is something jarring when it comes to mixing FANTASY entities into the REAL-world message of peace and unity.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 So what you are saying is that if Disney made an "IASW" movie and threw some characters into the movie and THEN added those characters to the ride, it'll be OK?
Originally Posted By oc_dean Well that would not make sense ... because the "World Unity - We are all the same" theme gets muddled .. because now you have stars from a movie who stand out among the rest of the "it's a small world" cast. There's no "unity" thing going on with the pirates .. it's every pirate for himself ... so that's why Sparrow works better within the context of the ride's themes. And given a decade or more .. people may be saying ... Sparrow who? .. Johnny Depp who?? And the 3 Sparrow AAs may tend to blend in with the rest of the "anonymous" cast of pirates. Or take him out altogether. (?) Who knows. After all ... there'll come a time those movie characters aren't so relevant. That seems to be WDI's favorite word to justify changes that don't fit. Make it "relevant"! Yeah! There you go! Do what ever it takes to make it "RELEVANT"!!! That's the ticket laddy!
Originally Posted By WorldDisney OC_Dean, I agree with all of that, BUT..... The message I got from this thread being bought up again is that in TIME, regardless what changes will be made, will be forgotten and accepted, maybe not by everyone, but will by the majority nevertheless. I mean it wasn't a year ago when there were endless threads about TSI and the POTC attractions being 'destroyed' because they were adding characters, changing themes and tones, etc. Less than a year later, not a single post about ANY of it anymore. People bring it up in passing, but the 'outrage' has looong been gone. The truth is Disney fans have a short memory. They will whine and moan about something weeks, months before it comes out, when it comes to changes, the changes come and people still go to the parks just as much as they did before. They ride POTC just as much as they did before, maybe even more now. I think that's the point. Yeah, its getting a lot of press now, but in 6 months down the line after reopening, if its done well, people will simply stop talking about it and accept it or refuse to ride that attraction....but people WILL ride it regardless. William knows this and more importantly Disney knows this as well. Either people vote with their pocketbooks and not go (which is why DCA is getting the treatment it FINALLY is ) or will happily pay for the next AP or pass while uttering nasty things under their breaths about Disney while going under the tunnel. Sorry, but that's what the reality will be in the end and once again, Disney knows this.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 Who's not to say in 10 to 15 years the characters will blend in with the IASW dolls?
Originally Posted By oc_dean But the point we are making all along though ... is the Disney characters are deeply rooted in their "Fantasy" worlds. And it's a small world is one of those unique exceptions that extend beyond the worlds of fantasy .. and reaches out to the real world, William. You've gone on the record William somewhere in all these threads ... that the more toons .. the better your "Disney theme park" experience is. And that's fine. Different Strokes for different folks. But for me ... the Disney theme park experience ... are experiences that go beyond the "light" and "frothy". But experiences that run deep. Walt was no fool ... he carefully placed his large family of lighthearted and loveable Disney cartoon characters in their rightful places ... While giving the public some experiences that resonated on some deeper .. more sophisticated levels. The 1967 Tomorrowland, all the obvious E Tickets, Lincoln, and later the original Future World pavilions in EPCOT, brilliantly concieved by 1st generation and 2nd generation imagineers. For me .. a place that is ALL froth is less memorable, and has a lesser impact. Adding Disney characters removes a few of those deeper levels. It does not add to it. And it's not just some blind nostalgic thing for me .. but more with my value system .. and what I see as key and essential to remaining lasting, and profound.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 The 1967 Tomorrowland, all the obvious E Tickets, Lincoln, and later the original Future World pavilions in EPCOT, brilliantly concieved by 1st generation and 2nd generation imagineers.<< I notice you didn't mention 1955 Tomorrowland.... Mainly because it proves that while Walt was a brilliant man, even he cut corners and made sacrifices out of budgetary concerns. Who is not to say Disney of today are making these decisions based on budgetary concerns? If it's Good enough for Walt......
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>I notice you didn't mention 1955 Tomorrowland....<< There was hardly any Tomorrowland for 1955. Only hopes for a better one in later years. >>Who is not to say Disney of today are making these decisions based on budgetary concerns?<< You mean .. that instead of making some substantial improvements, throw in carbon copies of what they already are doing for HKDL's version? Yeah! That's the cheap way out ... and mess with DL's delicate theming .. which does not seem to matter to them anymore.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>Mainly because it proves that while Walt was a brilliant man, even he cut corners and made sacrifices out of budgetary concerns.<< Once DL got off on solid footing though (which didn't take long) ... he worked at only improving, and in some cases only did the opposite of what you're saying. For example: In 1962/63 .. massive work went on to create New Orleans Square's subterranean level .. which extends throughout the whole mini land. Once they realized their "pirate" attraction was going from a walk-through museum .. to an extensive boat ride, never attempted anywhere else before ... He didn't cheap out and work around all that concrete and steel girders ... He tore it all up! And rebuilt it to accommodate his (now massive) boat ride.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 You mean .. that instead of making some substantial improvements, throw in carbon copies of what they already are doing for HKDL's version? Yeah! That's the cheap way out ... and mess with DL's delicate theming .. which does not seem to matter to them anymore. << So when Tomorrowland 55 opened with such brilliant attractions as Bathroom of Tomorrow, and all sorts of other messed up attractions, that screwed up the theming it was OK? Those against the theming of IASW with characters are all about giving Walt a free pass on everything he did, but the minute someone from Disney today makes a decision, they are instantly criticized for not "following the theme" or "making decisions based on budget" when, and here is the kicker.... WALT DID THE SAME THING IN 1955! I think my point has been made....
Originally Posted By oc_dean uh William... You had your very first theme park of it's kind in the world ... not open long, and you expected Walt to not be in a budget bind? From 1959 on ... it only got better .. as Walt and his crews were busy .... churning out great stuff at an incredible pace .. right up to his death in 1966.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >> Those against the theming of IASW with characters are all about giving Walt a free pass on everything he did, but the minute someone from Disney today makes a decision, they are instantly criticized for not "following the theme" or "making decisions based on budget" when, and here is the kicker....<< William .. you're missing the point... you stated your value system is all about toons. So .. it's not going to matter how toonified Disney parks go .. For you .. it's all for the better. Some others here don't think so. Goodnight.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd OK values and theme... How about we pull up the thread about the Haunted Mansion changes how it was going to become a gore fest because of the *gasp* ax-wielding bride and her headless husbands they were putting into the attic scene. That was going to change the whole theme of the Haunted Mansion and why don't they put back the Hatbox Ghost!?!?! I am going to wait and see...
