Originally Posted By FerretAfros "Just another example of how Disney is catering ONLY to people that stay and play only with Disney." It's not the playing that Disney's interested in, it's the paying. They are catering to them because they get the most money out of them, and they want more people to use that route. I really do think that they're just about at the limit of the pre-trip planning that people are willing to do (how often do you run into someone who's completey overwhelmed by planning a trip? and that's just about picking which parks to hit!), so I'll be really interested to see how this gets implemented. Yes, there may be a few who see the benefit of planning their entire trip 7 months in advance, so they can call and reserve every single thing at exactly 6 months in advance, but that just doesn't sound like a vacation to me. You do need a certain level of flexibility, especially with kids who can get tired or might have different interests in half a year. But that's the group that will be targeted for this, so I just don't know how successful this will be. There will definitely be people who like this, but I think it will probably be way way too pre-programed for the general park-going public. And heaven forbid that a ride breaks down during your reservation time. People freak out enough with FP, just imagine what it's like for people who have planned their entire vacation already and have no room to fit it in, and if they miss it, little Suzy's vacation will be ruined.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 OK-- I usually look for the silver lining in most announcements- but I have to admit this one is a head scratcher. Now keep in mind ( and no Spirit I do not have mental illness for planning 6 months ahead)- I am one of those who has developed an EXCEL spreadsheet that covers all the key items we need as a group of 9 for our yearly WDW vacation. We may not follow it to a T, but we have the option to do so and are covered for sit down meals ( since I am not traveling 1200 miles for a burger) - etc. So, this announcement really isn't going to do anything to my experience, just will require even more planning time. We are avid fastpass users and still feel that system enhances our trip.. But overall, I think this is one step off the ledge. Yes it will eliminate waiting 60-75 minutes or more in line for Fsantasmic..it will guarantee I see the Nemo show without a God awful wait as well..etc. I will get it done and book it out...but it even removes the spontaneity from someone who plans as well as I do. I think Fastpass is kept at least somewhat in check by the can't get another one until the previous one's time starts - however this program allows me to 'book' the exact rides I want - in sequence - along with my dinner ressies etc. ---I think the suits need to think about this more if they think this is going to increase revenue flow. As opposed to allowing the entire day let's say for EPCOT - which includes free lancing thru the countries and maybe catching British Invasion or Off Kilter - or any other street entertainment- whereby I likely buy a beer / soda / fozen concoction etc to watch with, I will now be 'on the clock' to stay as close to on schedule as possible. For those who complain Fastpass actually lengthens lines overall ( I still dispute that at least in part )- this sytem will absolutely book out the best rides at the best times. With Fastpass you hae to wait for that specific time to roll around in the machines- now you can choose. And God help us all if they leave Fastpass in at the same time- and I've not read this is 'replacing' FP -- does anyone know for sure ? So count me among those who loved the idea of DDE ( now tables in wonderland) as a way to reward frequent sit down meal patrons, and DDP as the straw that broke the system in so many ways. I look at FP as something that absolutely enhanced the visit for those who are non local - and willing to get to the parks early, and the Next Gen as the straw that will break the ride system as well. I would vote no- although with what they have invested already - none of us are getting a vote
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I am one of those who has developed an EXCEL spreadsheet that covers all the key items we need as a group of 9 for our yearly WDW vacation.<< More power to you if you enjoy it, but this just feels like the opposite of a vacation to me.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 First, I want to make it clear that I believe VBDAD is mentally ill because of the way he prances around his 'hood in winter with his tiara, Ariel two-piece, DVC pin lanyard and Bears warpaint, not his spreadsheeting ... that's just likely another symptom! ;-) What bothers me about NEXTGEN most of all is it spends a tremendous amount of capital and it is all designed to be able to take more money from guests via the way it data mines and creates profiles of guests and will again add another caste system where people will be treated differently (remember when Walt said every guest was a VIP? you don't ever see that line trotted out by PR anymore) based on how much they spend, where they spend it (Disney resorts) and how. It does nothing to add actual world class immersive family themed entertainment experiences to the parks at all. Does being able to 'book' rides months in advance (likely on a sliding scale where deluxes get first shot ... and where people with discounted rooms, even at deluxes, get less chance) really add value to a visit vs. major new cutting edge attractions (like UNI just built with Potter or OLC keeps pumping into its parks)? Does having a meet-and-greet with Aurora where she knows your little princess's name before they meet and that she just had her fifth B-Day add more value than having new parades and fresh entertainment on seasonal and annual levels? Does having Lilo and Stitch talk to your children thru a magic mirror in your Disney resort room make up for the fact the furniture in the room is failing apart and the Mousekeeper isn't trained to actually clean under the bed or remove mold fror the bathroom? I look at NEXTGEN as simply a techno marketing gimmick. So much should and could be done to the parks ... yet in 2011 they want to send you your room keys in advance (I'm sure that won't significantly reduce actual human CMs who average a whopping $9 an hour from working the front desks, right?) Really, what are they thinking?
Originally Posted By hopemax The thing is there are places where having more technology at Disney would be helpful. I've mentioned time and again, that Disney needs a better inventory system for its stores. I can go to Sears or Home Depot and countless other stores and if that particular store doesn't have a product, they can look up and tell me who has it, call and put that product on hold. If no one has it, they can tell me when the next shipment is going to arrive. At Disney, if a store doesn't have it, a lot of the CMs couldn't tell you what other store would carry it. One time, we were buying one of the Haunted Mansion Olszewski PokitPals at the store in AK, and a woman comes in in a frenzy. She was trying to complete her set of 4, and Art of Disney at Epcot said they didn't have it, but maybe the AK one would. They couldn't (or wouldn't) call to verify, she had to take time out of her vacation to run over to AK and hopefully they would have one. Lucky for her, she got the last one. But wouldn't it actually be helpful, if there was a system that didn't have the guest running around WDW on the CHANCE that another store might have it. And if they were a resort guest, wouldn't it be nice and easy if the store you were in didn't have it, you could leave your CC or room charge, and when you returned to your resort a package would be waiting for you with your purchase?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I mean, what happens if you want to ride something again? What happens if you don't want to go to a park one day?" Do you really think that the system would exclude repeat rides? Besides, when the wait for Space Mountain is 60 minutes, why would you want to stand in line a second time anyway? At busy times at DL some attractions have been known to have standby waits as long as 75 minutes. As I said, the current system already has some problems that limit spontaneity. Now, I'm not completely sold on this concept (actually I don't really quite understand it completely) however I agree that something should be done to alleviate some of the impact the hordes of people have on the individual guest experience at the parks.
Originally Posted By SeventyOne <Now, I'm not completely sold on this concept (actually I don't really quite understand it completely) however I agree that something should be done to alleviate some of the impact the hordes of people have on the individual guest experience at the parks.> There's nothing remotely like that in this proposal--there's no new capacity here. Theme park lines are a zero sum game. HM and PotC are going to put thru X number of people an hour, and that's it. If Y number of slots are allocated some way other than the main line--FastPass, reservation, whatever--wait times are going to increase for everyone left. Admittedly, the lucky few who get to skip the line do miss a crowd, but it makes things worse for the majority left out.
Originally Posted By GOB What if the "caste system" plan backfires and folks stop visiting because they can't/won't pay the extra cash to be treated preferentially?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I agree that something should be done to alleviate some of the impact the hordes of people have on the individual guest experience at the parks<< I'm not sure this will do that. Fastpass may be popular, but the fact is that it has helped create those hordes of people (whereas they used to be absorbed into the various queues.) And once everyone is planning things, it just means you'll be packed in with large groups of people in different ways. And, of course, at increased cost.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones When you get too wrapped up in the technology, you forget about the question, "What is the value added for the guest?" What Disney is doing is basically spinning a concept that benefits their company greatly, but has little to no marginal benefit for the average guest. The trick is convincing them into thinking they'll have a better vacation because of this new technology. Might as well, because they'll be paying for it if they want to visit Disney World.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt <Now, I'm not completely sold on this concept (actually I don't really quite understand it completely) however I agree that something should be done to alleviate some of the impact the hordes of people have on the individual guest experience at the parks.> "There's nothing remotely like that in this proposal--there's no new capacity here. Theme park lines are a zero sum game." I'm not talking about capacity, although maybe that will be addressed with the final rollout of the program. What I'm talking about is a more effective way to manage guests and keep people happy when the park is bursting at the seams. As it is now DL is pretty has a reputation for being a madhouse unless it's the middle of January or February. Here is Tom Staggs' statement from the report that touches on this: >>We know that our guests love creating great Disney memories with their friends and their families. We also know that they don't exactly relish waiting in line, checking at the resort, worrying about missing their favorite attractions or feeling uncertain how to best navigate and access our properties. In the coming years, we’ll introduce a broad, integrated set of systems and tools that will help us create a more seamless, personalized experience, and help guests to get more out of their visit with us. That’s our ultimate goal – to welcome more and more people, while making their experience more satisfying, more personal and more immersive. We’re also developing the means to better assess and manage guest traffic throughout our theme parks so that we can use entertainment experiences, characters, and other forms of Disney magic to help improve the flow of guests during peak periods… and drive increased utilization as a result for our parks.<<< In a nutshell it sounds to me that they are actively looking for ways to improve the experience by managing crowds through technology while growing the bottom line, of course.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 Just give me long, immersive AA attractions like PoTC and HM and I will be happy. Since I know this probably won't happen, it looks like the Disney(parks division)is basically passing into history
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "I've mentioned time and again, that Disney needs a better inventory system for its stores. I can go to Sears or Home Depot and countless other stores and if that particular store doesn't have a product, they can look up and tell me who has it, call and put that product on hold. If no one has it, they can tell me when the next shipment is going to arrive. At Disney, if a store doesn't have it, a lot of the CMs couldn't tell you what other store would carry it." Well with the increasing homogenization of merchandise in the Disney parks, I'd say just go next door! Chances are they will have more of the same crap! "One time, we were buying one of the Haunted Mansion Olszewski PokitPals at the store in AK...." Proves my point EXACTLY! I mean, what the HELL is ANYTHING HM doing in DAK?!?
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Just give me long, immersive AA attractions like PoTC and HM and I will be happy." Okay, but you have to give Disney your age, gender, hobbies, favorite food, address, credit card, phone number, email address, SSN, web browser history and family medical history, before you can ride.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 That should have read, "Since I know this probably won't happen, it looks like the Disney(parks division)we know and love is basically passing into history."
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 ""Just give me long, immersive AA attractions like PoTC and HM and I will be happy." Okay, but you have to give Disney your age, gender, hobbies, favorite food, address, credit card, phone number, email address, SSN, web browser history and family medical history, before you can ride. " Hell, I'd be happy to go back to the ticket book system or have a slot at the ride entrance and you have to put a dollar in! I wonder if WDW built a new $200m E ticket(and I don't mean something like EE that breaks down after six months)and did this, if they'd be surprised at how much it would make. This would all tie back in to the previous admin's idea of "Everything MUST be a PROFIT CENTRE!!!!!"
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Since I know this probably won't happen, it looks like the Disney(parks division)is basically passing into history" I pretty much put the parks in my back pocket years ago. I enjoy discussing them here, but I don't have a huge drive to visit them the way that I used to. There are far more entertaining ways to spend my time that don't involve the hassles and cost less money.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 It's datamining, guys. That's the goal. To collect as much bits of info about you (much like Facebook and Twitter) and then use them to make as much $$$ off of you as possible. In the purest sense, that's the whole point of NEXTGEN. If it can (on the surface, at least) personalize your magical WDW vacation more, then it will. But that's in TWDC's best interests as well as they can maximize their profit potential by basically running all your likes/dislikes/spending patterns/history thru a database and tailoring offers and products to fit your alleged 'desires' ... it's really very scary, but is already happening with FB. There's no way FB could be worth a $1 (let alone the propped up and absurd $50 billion value, more than the market caps of REAL companies with REAL concrete assets, that the analysts have placed on it) if they couldn't find metrics to monetize you based on your likes/dislikes/friends/associations etc. It can be very scary, but when you're hooked, you're hooked ... and nothing you place online is private in a place like FB or Twitter no matter what you wish to believe. It can (and does daily) come back and bite people on the arse. Disney would much rather people think this is about making things better for guests (after all, the biggest complaint they have -- that they always have had -- is waiting in line or not being able to do it all) then it being about creating a huge database on said guests. It's too easy for people to just think it's about booking rides eight months in advance (based upon what level WDW Resort, yes forget the guests who stay off-property, you are staying in and even what rate you are paying ... wow, you got a discounted room at the BW for 'only' $200 a night ... well, that means that Brittany doesn't get one-on-one treatment by Cinderella and instead of getting eight FPs in advance per day, per park, you only get two), but it isn't really at all. In the meantime, you still have four parks in various states of neglect and what is coming isn't attempting to set the bar or even equal past attempts. So, while UNI spends on cutting edge immersive family attractions like WWoHP, Disney wants to sell the same stale magic, but do so by getting you to pay more to feel special. All guests will no longer (they haven't been for quite a while anyway) treated the same -- like VIPs, they will be in a caste system based upon all sorts of mostly spending criteria. And when you look at the price, you realize all of the concrete and mortar actual structures and attractions and infrastructure that the money could have been spent on. It's really kind of embarrassing that Disney feels the need to tout this ... that's likely because they have nothing else to talk about. Disney is simply reverse Imagineering the airline business model with RFID here. They are going to make you pay for as much as possible, including things you always thought you didn't have to pay for ... FP may be available still without a charge, but so many will be given away to resort guests months before you may even know you're visiting. You may still,theoretically , be able to book a dinner at Le Cellier without staying on property ... but just try. MAGIC YOUR WAY and Destination Disney was the start of the campaign to 'personalize' the experience of a MAGICal WDW vacation. And, as Scar would say, you have no ideaaaaa how well they intend this to pay off for them. Not for you!
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub I have not read the recent interview just LP posts...basically these technological improvements will be made at WDW because their guests/hotel ratio demand will be necessary to enforce this. DL only has 3 hotels and lots of locals. WDW has lots of hotels and lots of out of town guests. It will be easy to force the WDW guest to pay for this in their travel package. They have also already started this new guest enjoyment while in line with the Space Mnt computer interactive games and the new Winnie the Pooh activity center and soon to be opened HM area(?). They also have been monitoring guest crowds and opening lunch hour only food areas(aka usually empty restaurants). They also have been creating guest diversions with quik character appearances in the Main Street Hub. All of a sudden the band might come to perform in this area or in another area to move people away from congested areas. Now this makes Corp Disney feel like they are improving the guest experience and they do not want to hear if it is making us happy or not. They will just be monitoring increased guest spending with smaller parades and smaller fireworks.I assume this will also be implemented on a smaller scale at DL. It will not be as noticeable at DL/DCA because all of the new construction(CARS and Mermaid) will keep the crowds happy for a year or two. In my opinion their biggest problem is at DL. They do not want locals in the parks not spending big money. My entire family lives in Southern California and I know they have passes and go every weekend and do not spend any money. I think that is a problem that Disney is looking for ways to address.
