Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I'm tired of hearing about Harry Potter over and over. And I'm a huge Harry Potter fan. They do one thing right, and suddenly they are the measuring stick that everyone must measure up to?<<< Before I went, I was too. It's just THAT GOOD. Closest thing to perfection in Themed Design this millennium. (In the states, that is. I'm sure Spirit has a few comparisons to TDL and WWoHP.)
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>>You don't have to be a "plebian rubes" to be tired of spending $5,000 to travel hundreds of miles to visit DL, and your whole trip your fighting your way through crowds, waiting a hour to get on Peter Pan, waiting 30 minutes to get to the service counter to get your dry hamburger and french fries, then fighting what seems like the entire California state for your shot at seeing the fireworks. THAT does not seem like a vacation to me.<<< Raising prices and reducing APs would make a huge difference in doing this too. That would be my preference, even if I lived in Anaheim.
Originally Posted By SeventyOne <If you're a Potter fan, then you should get your butt (the rest of you as well) down to IOA, Connie. It IS the new measuring stick and it isn't the first time ... attractions like MiB, Spiderman and Mummy have all pushed things ... heck, even Cat in the Hat did sorta.> Not just rides...restaurants (Mythos, Three Broomsticks), nightlife, hotels--I'm hard-pressed to think of an aspect of Uni that doesn't show up what Disney has done in the past decade.
Originally Posted By SeventyOne ^Special events, too, although after last Christmas, Sea World might have both of them beat.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance "<<If they didn't think that this was in demand why would they be doing it? People do want characters, whether you or me like it or not.>> "They want characters because Disney conditioned them to. " Oh that's bull. Disney is adding characters everywhere because people are responding to them more and more. Character dining is insanely popular. And why shouldn't it be? For people with kids (like me)it is ridiculously fun. I've never had dinner anywhere with my kids that was as fun as watching them with the characters at Goofy's Kitchen. And if that's where there money is being made, why would they invest in else? Would you if it was your business? "It is bad ... and I have decided to be a selfish Spirit (since most others are as well). I really don't care what others want anymore." It's natural for you and I to want the parks tailor made with exactly the kinds of things we want, but Disney, being the huge conglomerate business it is, is going to want the things that will bring the most people and money. People are saying, I'm tired of lines and waiting and crowds. Disney is smartly trying to address those issues.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Kids want nothing but ice cream for dinner too, it doesn't mean that is all we should give them. Pretty soon they would be sick of it. How long did the fad of beanie babies last? Cabbage Patch Dolls? Transformers? Disney needs to shake it up and stay ahead of the curve. rubberheads do not do it.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance I don't think you can compare beanie babies and Cabbage Patch dolls to characters at the parks. My kids go once a year, it's not like they are going to get sick of seeing them once a year. If I took them every week, then maybe, but not once a year.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Not just rides...restaurants (Mythos, Three Broomsticks), nightlife, hotels--I'm hard-pressed to think of an aspect of Uni that doesn't show up what Disney has done in the past decade.>> Two words: Tchoup Chop. Hands down, the best resort restaurant in Orlando, especially the fixe prix at the chef's table. Not to mention that the resort Tchoup Chop is located in (Royal Pacific) is one of the best hotels in Orlando. The WDW deluxe hotels cannot compare to Royal Pacific. They're overrated and overpriced, for what you get. Uni is a better value, with more compelling themed experiences and far better accommodations and dining options. They deserve all the success they receive.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 "Disney is adding characters everywhere because people are responding to them more and more."" Because they had NO CHOICE when Disney brainwashes you into thinking, "yes this is a MUST do, im un-American if i dont do it".
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance No, I think people respond to it because their kids do. And people like watching their kids have a good time. Kids aren't worried about being American or un-American. They just like big, fuzzy things that pay attention to them. And likewise, their parents will too.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> People are saying, I'm tired of lines and waiting and crowds. Disney is smartly trying to address those issues. << Would adding attractions increase capacity and help to dissolve some of the crowds? If WDW had kept on top of things and added attractions at a reasonable rate over the past decade, they might have four full theme parks by now and no overcrowding issues. (BTW, is overcrowding a serious problem? I swear, I never wait more than 20 minutes for anything when I go to the parks.) I see the schedule-your-ride-on-Space-Mountain plan as just a way to move the pieces around--moving the guests around--without adding anything substantial to the parks. Which again reminds me why it's been many years since I considered purchasing an AP.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance Well, I don't know about WDW, but lines and crowds are definitely an issue at DL which is where I mainly go. As for what would help with crowds and lines, I don't know. Truly, I'm not a crowdologist or a linisyt, but anything that could help make my yearly visits less crowded or stressful is a step in the right direction.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "And people like watching their kids have a good time." They do this at the park. At Disney theme parks, the whole idea was that you'd be having fun *with* your kids.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "People are saying, I'm tired of lines and waiting and crowds. Disney is smartly trying to address those issues." And they aren't addressing those issues in any meaningful way. The parks and attractions have a capacity limit, and their Fastpass 2.0 doesn't increase capacity. It's just making guests play musical chairs.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance Well, like I said, I really have no idea what would and wouldn't help with lines and capacity. But, I'm not willing to write off this whole Genext thing. We have very limited info as to what it will entail. Once it's completely unveiled and in place we'll see how it all plays out. But, I'm a planner, and I have to admit, the more I can pre-plan, the happier I tend to be. I realize that not everyone will feel that way though, and hope they will still have plenty of options for those that don't want to plan everything ahead.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Where do I start with this. I have no hair to rip out. First of all, fastpass has made the parks feel more crowded. Fact. I have seen the metrics with my own eyes when FP has been tested in parks with similar foot falls on both days. It pushes the standby waiting times up everywhere else, and more people on the pavement, especially in Anaheim. Next point, FP is already a problem, especially at DL, where people think it means you can go on the ride anytime you want after the start time. In Paris they stick to the FP times and you can really tell the difference this makes to the park and FP and stand by wait times. If people are already claiming they are "late" because an attraction went 101 or they were eating or what ever, this will become even more of a nightmare if you booked everything 6 months in advance. Last time we went to WDW, I booked all our restaurants 6 months in advance. We had 4 hours to go until our Ohana reservations, but the kids were not feeling great and my MIL insisted on eating. Not a snack, but she ate a full portion of Fish and Chips (grrrr). when our reservation rolled around, she was not ready for dinner. Well we cancelled, and the only way we could get a table service restaurant was for breakfast at our hotel, where we had breakfast the morning before. But the meals were prepaid on the dining plan. It also took nearly an hour in city hall to sort it all out (and this was in the so called off season). Not my idea of fun. Meet and greets are ok, but as a kid, it was the sponteneity that was always great, and you know what, we still had sponteneity last time we were in Ca too. In Paris it has become a nightmare. The Main Street vehicles hardly run anymore because they have a meet and greet train all the time, there is hardly any live music as they invested in meet and greets instead, most of the good restaurants have been turned into character meal venues including no show at the saloon - so it would be like turfing the Billy's out and putting a character meal in. The most expensive meal in the park is Auberge de Cindrillon at $90 a person for lunch. It is good food, and wine is included, but still it is because they have the princesses including a waltz. They used to at least include 9 photos, but now they are an extra $40. DLP now has a reputation as a park just for kids. And it is actually becoming more and more that way. to me that is the antithesis of what disney is about newbie. And lastly there is no way I want to wait and see on a $1.2bn capital expenditure programme. I would rather have the 10 e tickets that could pay for and increase capacity. This is designed to shunt people around the park like cattle, use the inexperiences, and crap on those who do not want to stay on site or preplan (look at dining reservations and Fast Pass impact as previous examples). There are a few ways to reduce waits: Increase attractions and shows (and $1.2bn could go a long way towards this) Increase hours and add exclusive hours for hotel guests (you know, like Disney used to) Put a cap on APs, a blackout on a number of key dates, or increase the price to $1000-$1500 a pass. All of those would be preferable to me, and would mean DL would be special for all again.
Originally Posted By MousDad <<But, I'm a planner, and I have to admit, the more I can pre-plan, the happier I tend to be.>> There's nothing wrong with planning what you want to do, even down to the minute, if that's what suits you. But what began as a planning movement has morphed over time into a commando subculture, with the focus not being on itinerary, but rather on how to one-up the (majority of) other guests. So it has created a caste system among guests. The initiated vs. the uninitiated. The savvy vs. the ignorant. The commandos vs. the casuals. The problem is that once separate castes are created, they can't both be having an equally good experience. So, in a sense, you have a certain percentage of your guests, on any given day, who are having a much worse time than the others. It's bad enough that this is the culture guests (largely) have created, but now we see Disney just continually feeding the frenzy more and more. Then there's the truly magical things it leads to when the "savvys" turn on each other - like guests yelling at each other because one didn't get the please-pick-my-kid front row seat at Festival of the Lion King (one I witnessed that comes to mind). But I can blather on and on about it, and it doesn't matter. WDW is what it is, and it will never change. The guest parity turns off some first-timers, but makes others want to come back again to "do it right." So Disney ends up winning anyway. Now where's my touring calendar?
Originally Posted By MousDad Post #97 Edit: Next to last paragraph should read "lack of guest parity"
