Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< ....should the family get $1 billion Spirit of '74 for their "tremendous loss" and use that horrific accident as a huge payday???? >>> This brings up the whole issue of compensating the family for their loss, vs punishing Disney for wrongdoing. When a wage-earning head of household is killed, it's common to calculate their expected earnings for the rest of their lives and use that at least as a starting point. Imagine a typical situation of a man in his 40's, with a wife that doesn't work outside the home, and 3 kids. The wife needs to be supported for the rest of their lives, and the kids need to be supported at least through age 18, and probably through their college years if that's the path they take. Furthermore, the man probably has an established career path and salary history, and it would not be that difficult to figure out how much he probably would have made over the rest of his working life, and see to it that that amount is paid to the wife and kids to replace the lost income. But, what do you do with a college kid that's killed? We have no idea what he would do with his life, what profession he would have had, or what kind of money he would have made. And, even if we were to calculate such a value, to whom would you pay it? He's probably never even met the person that would have been his wife, and those that would have been his children will never be born. And, except for an unusual situation, the parents and other remaining family member would have never depended on him for financial support. So, unlike the breadwinner situation, to whom do you pay these future lost wages as compensation? It's a tough situation. Note what I say above is completely independent of pain and suffering, and loss of companionship, both of which the extended family may be due regardless of the kid's age. Now, completely separate from all of the above, is the notion of punitive damages. Those are damages award above and beyond any financial or emotional losses and serve solely to punish the wrongdoer in the case where the actual damages aren't enough to do so. My opinion is that these are sometimes way out of control. One way to fix that problem is to have punitive damages paid to someone other than the plaintiffs or their attorneys - maybe some sort of victim's fund. This provides an equal amount of punishment to the wrongdoer, without providing the unjust enrichment aspect to punitive damages that rubs many people the wrong way.
Originally Posted By barboy Spirit, I just don't think that this is going to turn out to be the case that will clean the "mouse house" that you are hoping to see since it lacks(thus far anyway) any real sensationalism. That Tigger story got way more publicity AND NOBODY DIED and nobody got hurt Why???? Why is that???? The answer is found in certain societal "rules" which I talked about earlier: the masses take an interest in (A)sexual misconduct, (B)terrorism, (C)hurt kids, (D)the strange/bizarre or (E) anything bad that happens to terribly handsome/pretty people. This CM and the monorail episode is none of the above. (actually in all fairness I have not seen a picture of the unfortunate CM who lost his life due to another's negligence--- was he very handsome?)
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Almost every member of the jury pool has some ties to Disney, whether it be as a current or former CM, a relative of one, or just someone who realizes that the local economy (which means their jobs and property values indirectly) is driven by WDW. This is going to create a reluctance in at least some of them to agree to an outlandish award. << Possibly, but I think you overestimate the average Central Floridian's appreciation for what Disney has done for the area. A lot of Floridians--especially the prized native Floridians--really resent the company's presence.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> That Tigger story got way more publicity AND NOBODY DIED and nobody got hurt Why???? Why is that???? << How are you measuring "publicity"? I seem to recall plenty of stories on the July 4 monorail death. How extensively was the Tigger story covered by the national media? I'm thinking it got some attention, but probably no more than the monorail death.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> You brought up some valid, and very interesting points. I agree with almost everything you said. Basicly what it boils down to is the evidence, and the crap shoot of a jury trial in the wrongful death of a young man. That's why I think it will never reach a jury << Post 37 was actually meant for SuperDry, but it could apply to barboy also.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Oh, and don't for a second think Disney and its lawyers won't play dirty with the family ... if this kid had anything in his background that wasn't 100% wholesome they'll exploit it ... if the family has anything they don't want in the public eye, rest assured, Mickey's rats already know it. << A very risky move though.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> How are you measuring "publicity"? I seem to recall plenty of stories on the July 4 monorail death. How extensively was the Tigger story covered by the national media? I'm thinking it got some attention, but probably no more than the monorail death. << This is an apples an oranges senario anyway. The Tigger incident only got more publicity than a casual mention because of the video, and the questionable character of the family involved. No where near the scale of the Monorail death. Just remember everytime a bus has a fender bender or everytime anything bad happens, the local newspaper reminds everybody of Adam's death. Now just imagin what will be in print if this were to go to trial. Does anybody here really think that Disney would like their safety record or the deaths, and accidents that have occured at WDW on national news, and in national print again.
Originally Posted By barboy Just for clarification leobloom and MPierce I was talking about the "groping" Tigger episode not the "Punching" Tigger one. Poor Tigger......he has to deal with opportunistic scum. And leobloom I'm not sure how to answer your #44---- you have a fair question though.
Originally Posted By MPierce Was that the one where Tigger was an exemplary employee, and found innocent?
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 I totally agree with SuperDry in #41, he expressed it much better than I did.
Originally Posted By mousermerf You folks keep missing the point. The paperwork was filed, Disney had to respond, they did. This essentially means nothing.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Poor Tigger......he has to deal with opportunistic scum. << It's because he's too bouncy. He needs to cut back.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You folks keep missing the point. The paperwork was filed, Disney had to respond, they did. This essentially means nothing. >> No one is missing a thing. It was procedural, sure. But Disney could have already had the matter settled too. They are going to be as cutthroat as can be ... As to the contention they can get away with it because there hasn't been huge media coverage, I'll just state that if it ever went to trial there would be plenty of local/regional coverage, which would be picked up in some form or fashion nationally and internationally. To what degree? Who knows? It ain't going to get there. And Tigger has no baring on this situation ... but I wonder if they'll be building him his own meet-greet-and-grope in the MAGICal and imaginary Phase II of the Fantasyland project.
Originally Posted By barboy Even if this case gets before a jury and the jury awards the biggest number imaginable don't expect it to stay in the national/international news very long---stuff like that has a shelf life of a day or two......especially when Disney announces an appeal and no real money has changed hands or some judge reduces the amount substantially. And guess what.....the masses will continue to come and attendance won't be affected adversely. Why? Because people just don't care. But you can bet your last dollar that many people would care if a Middle Easterner strapped explosives on himself and took out a single CM on the Monorail. Some families might start thinking twice before vacationing in such a "dangerous" place.
Originally Posted By barboy ///his own meet-greet-and-grope/// Damn that was well timed!!! LMAO You know Spirit it is stuff like that that keeps me coming back to read your offerings(aside from your high quality info.).
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<And guess what.....the masses will continue to come and attendance won't be affected adversely. Why? Because people just don't care. But you can bet your last dollar that many people would care if a Middle Easterner strapped explosives on himself and took out a single CM on the Monorail. Some families might start thinking twice before vacationing in such a "dangerous" place.>> Right, just like no one flies or drives any more because of all the fatal accidents.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Right, just like no one flies or drives any more because of all the fatal accidents./// Your sarcastic response is flawed--- but then again a lot of what you offer is flawed or of no value, so no surprise there. People were scared to fly after 911---you do remember that don't you or are you just being dense/dishonest? And why bring up car deaths('drive')? I was talking about terrorist actions not accidental driving deaths ......but you knew that too or do you have reading comprehension problem?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ///his own meet-greet-and-grope/// <<Damn that was well timed!!! LMAO You know Spirit it is stuff like that that keeps me coming back to read your offerings(aside from your high quality info.).>> Thanks, I try. Oh yes, I try!
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy I think the outcome of this lawsuit will largely depend on whether the WDW monorails end up being legally classified as an amusement attraction or a transportation system. The fact that the NTSB put in their two cents for an investigation leads me to believe that it could be classified as a transportation system. There is a lot of legal precedent in the world of transportation systems (public and private) to shield the operators from liabilities that occur in the event of system failures. People get run over and killed by trolleys, subways, and other rail systems everyday. There seemed to be a mishap, sometimes fatal, on the San Diego trolley system at least weekly when I lived there. Rail systems throughout the country are subject to crashes for a whole host of reasons. These transportation systems do not get crippled with punitive lawsuits as a result of tragic events. If Disney lawyers get their system classified as one for transportation and not entertainment, their liability will be significantly limited in the outcome of this suit.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Your sarcastic response is flawed--- but then again a lot of what you offer is flawed or of no value, so no surprise there. << What a totally tacky thing to say!
