Originally Posted By hightp I think the key point here, is why are the Democrats down in the polls. If the current administration is so despised, and if the Republicans are to be blamed for the current economic situation, then why isn't Obama leading by a wide margin? His lead should have be insurmountable, instead, he now has to play 'catch up'. True, it's a long way to November, but if the Democrats can't pull off this election, they should just call it a day and close up shop all together.
Originally Posted By gadzuux We as a nation should do the same. It means that there are huge numbers of americans who are either woefully uninformed or willfully and stubbornly voting against their own best interests. This really shouldn't be a difficult decision.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "First of all, "the stupid, ignorant" type statments were here before the subject of abortion even came up. So I really shouldn't need to respond to you question, since it's misdirecting my observation to one specific issue. But I will anyway: Who do you know that endorses her supposed specific stance? I don't. I haven't seen anyone else on this board say that abortions should be 100% banned. But I and others support McCain party this year, not because of this one issue, but for many, many different issues and reasons." Well, I'll do it. I feel the issue of abortion is one of such paramount importance that it trumps anything else Palin may believe. If this is the kind of judgment she exhibits on this issue, I don't trust her with anything else. As fart as I'm concerned, it's tantamount to supporting Hitler. "Yeah, that Adolph, he's got a problem with that Aryan race thing, but gee, he's such a supporter of the Arts. Look at his collection. I can overlook his faults." Ergo, anyone who would support a person who wants someone like Palin on his ticket has got to be ignorant. I feel that strongly about it.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "As fart as I'm concerned" One of the all-time Freudian slips.
Originally Posted By Elderp "Well, I'll do it." It's all or nothing on both sides. This is why we are at where we are at, and it looks like this election is going to be no difference.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Three guesses as to which side of the aisle employs this tactic. Of course, that's because it only works on the dumbest among us.<< After the weekend we've all been through, that anyone can still cling to the notion that the GOP exclusivley appeals to the voters' basest instincts is really unbelievable.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>...it's tantamount to supporting Hitler.<< Wow. Hitler. So abortion isn't just the one-and-only deciding issue, but disagreement on it makes the candidate the moral equivalent of Hitler. Just wow. (P.S. Amusing side note: There are many screedy folks on the right who say the pro-abortionists are just like Hitler. And they're just as wrong.)
Originally Posted By DlandDug And, sorry if I offend, but these two statements, taken together, struck me as awfully funny: >>Only if your definition of 'elitist' is intelligent and informed and discerning. If not, you're applying a double-standard, which happens all the time.<<
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Wow. Hitler. So abortion isn't just the one-and-only deciding issue, but disagreement on it makes the candidate the moral equivalent of Hitler." Really don't care what you think, Dug. Force a woman to carry a child bred from rape or incest? You really can live with that kind of attitude as long as she's on board with you on other things? There are breaking points and then there are breaking points, and this one is massive.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Moreover, there are people on this board who have already related their very personal experiences with this. And, in my line of work, I get to see cases like this from time to time where the child at issue resulted from a rape. It's sad beyond belief. It's such a core issue for me that for someone of Palin's alleged background and experience to take this stand, it literally makes me sick. Like Hitler would.
Originally Posted By Elderp Is it just me or is the abortion issue a red herring? I mean does anyone on either side of the issue think that it is going to change in the next four years? There is soo many other issues that can change and all the media seems to be focused on is the fact that Obama is black and Palin is a pro-lifer. When are we going to get to talk about issues that aren't just hypotheticals and are likely to happen. We still have a war going on, our economy is in the tank, gas is lowering but it is still high, polution, mortgages,etc.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Is it just me or is the abortion issue a red herring?<< Some of us have the luxury of saying so, yes. But for people like SPP, or others who have related their deeply personal stories, these are real issues that affect the lives of real Americans everyday. Sarah Palin has made it clear that she feels like it's her right to tell Americans what they should and shouldn't do in this situation. That's a big deal to me. It's a very telling thing when someone wants to impose their religious beliefs on another person, and everything we've read about Sarah Palin suggests she's all for it.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney ^^Thank you! Those are wise words. I'm pro-life, but that comes in many ways. I mean, did everyone hear about those kids in the videos from the US attacks on Afghanistan last month? There were 8 to 10 children who had been accidentally killed by the U.S. attack in the videos. The U.N. is looking into this. How many innocent Iraqi children have been accidentally killed by our troops since this war started??
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Is it just me or is the abortion issue a red herring? I mean does anyone on either side of the issue think that it is going to change in the next four years? There is soo many other issues that can change and all the media seems to be focused on is the fact that Obama is black and Palin is a pro-lifer." Because the issue could very easily raise its ugly head. Justice Stevens is 88, and Justice Ginsburg is 75 and in poor health. If McCain/Palin gets to appoint two of their own to be their replacements, kiss Roe v. Wade goodbye, and try and ensure no one you know gets raped.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>If the current administration is so despised, and if the Republicans are to be blamed for the current economic situation, then why isn't Obama leading by a wide margin?<< Good question. (And on topic, too! How did that happen?) Look over the graph on this site: <a href="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#chart" target="_blank">http://www.realclearpolitics.c...ml#chart</a> The red line averages all of McCain's poll numbers, and blue line Obama's. From early May right up to the (now erased) convention spike, Obama's numbers do not move more than two points in either direction. Even when McCain was in free fall all through June (when the media was focusing all attention on Obama), Obama's numbers stayed steady. It's weird, and speaks much of how wary voters are this year. I am sure the Obama campaign has been trying to figure out how to get those numbers above 50. Certainly, neither campaign has had anything to crow about in the polls.
