Originally Posted By utahjosh I will admit that I usually come off as obstinate, and once in a while, not very nice. It's a little rough 'round these parts being the only active LDS believer. However I absolutely believe 100% with my whole soul that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is led by God. I've dedicated my life to Jesus Christ, and it's second nature for me to share my beliefs and defend my religion. That kind of life perspective doesn't really jive with many of the opinions found around here.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Peace and love to all y'all. That's all I have to say. I'm off to Vegas and Disneyland. Woo hoo!
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>>>>>>>>>> >>"If I live a good life (by my own standards and that of the society that I belong to) then as far as I'm concerned there is a place for me in heaven." Bingo. This cannot be disputed. Which is why I've come to believe organized religion is a scam, although some religions elevate the scam to an art form, such as the Mormons and Catholics. Preying on people who are told that living a decent life isn't enough. Sickening. <<<<<< Brilliant SinglePassHolder .... may I add a bit more, please? I would love it, if all of mankind, including every organized religion .. could take a step back ... And ask themselves ... Our forefathers .. of many developed religions have so many doctrines that say - Gays are an abomination, gay this .. gay that, blacks are allowed to live to be a representation of Satan on Earth. According to the Bible .. it's okay to have slaves .. Okay to stone this person ... okay to sacrifice this person .. or that person .. for one reason or another ............. That too few are willing to even put to the test: How much of it is really The Word of God? OR ....... How much of it is just 'imaginative' stories created ... and pass down throughout the ages .. and now taken as Truth? You have to ask yourself: Why would the creator of the universe take the time to tell humans it's okay to discriminate on this ... call this race a representation of Satan ... blah, blah, blah. But why can't any rational human being with common sense ask him or herself - Whatever "God" really is ... I think 'its' too busy creating life on other planets. Does anyone ever take the time to think how many stars are in our galaxy alone? Does anyone ever take the time to think how many galaxies there are outside of ours? Is humanity arrogant enough to think we are the only living creatures in this incredibly vast universe? Through hearing enough bull* on gays and the bible and other religions, and making me take a close look at it all... It's clear to me ... most religions are a creation of man himself .. and his own narrow minded perception of what HE THINKS "God" is. Revelations? Most likely delusional thinking, coded with whatever their own bigoted view of other people and the world are. Or another description I like to give - Very creative and imaginative "ideas" of the world. Being "creative" and "imaginative" aren't just proprietary to creating theme parks! I'll just ask this one question to the Mormans from a stack <a href="http://tiny.cc/p2kkx" target="_blank">http://tiny.cc/p2kkx</a> of them: How do you tell people around you, you just discovered some "golden plates" ... but when asked where are they? - Oh, they had to take them back. You just have to believe me on Faith. Right from the very beginning .. the Mormon Church is created - On believing the plates were real - no proof needed. And it just never occurs to anyone that while we have plenty of con artists in our age today ... But it's entirely impossible that the 19th Century never had a human being capable of coning anyone right?
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 "For my 2 cents (and again based on my limited knowledge of the church, but as a member nonetheless) I was brought up to believe that our Heavenly Father loves us all. My own leap from there says that that means heaven is open to all regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation or baptism. I don't understand how a father that loves us all so much can discriminate and this is where I have issues with not just the Mormon church, but many others. If I live a good life (by my own standards and that of the society that I belong to) then as far as I'm concerned there is a place for me in heaven." This is basically what I believe. I also believe that God chose to make many different people, and He doesn't make mistakes. For example, if He made someone gay, he must have wanted to be that way. We make choices every day to do right or wrong, and I believe God alone knows what is in our hearts and whether or not we are good people. I think that if we try our best to be a good person, admit to and try to make amends if we do something wrong, are good to those around us and try to help people when we can that God will base his on that, and not how many times a week you attend church or how many people you try to "save." (I put save in parentheses for a reason...I do not believe that we can save other people in the sense that some religious people use the word. People have to decide for themselves if they believe or don't, and trying to guilt trip them into it is not going to do anything for them) I don't know if I expressed any of that right. Basically, it boils down to me believing that God looks more at who we are than what religion or denomination we choose to belong to.
Originally Posted By u k fan PrincessJenn, I think you make perfect sense. Josh, I think it's a shame that you know your being "not very nice". I realise you come in for a lot of criticism here, but in that case you are probably owed some of it. It's sad that there are likely to be people here whose only real exposure to the church is someone who admits to being "not very nice". I'd be disappointed if you didn't defend your faith, but maybe think a bit more about how you're doing it, as despite any feelings I have towards the church itself the Mormon congregation are some of the kindest people I've ever met!!!
Originally Posted By YumaJohn Mormons-Wonderful people Smokin' hot chicks Absolutely bizarre theology. I truly do not understand how any Mormon who has seriously looked into the history of the church and it's teachings could remain a member.
Originally Posted By YumaJohn It also bothers me that the church has spent untold millions of dollars buying all manner of (including forged) documents that may prove embarassing to the church.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I'd be disappointed if you didn't defend your faith, but maybe think a bit more about how you're doing it, as despite any feelings I have towards the church itself the Mormon congregation are some of the kindest people I've ever met!!!" I've said many, many times- anyone is free to choose whatever and however they address religion. Whatever makes them happy. But when Mormons force their beliefs on others, then I go ballistic. Whether it's Prop 8, baptizing others, all because they "know better", then the gloves come off.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>It also bothers me that the church has spent untold millions of dollars buying all manner of (including forged) documents that may prove embarassing to the church.<< That's not remotely true. They no longer pay for documents and, the irony of the Hoffmann affair in the mid-'80s was that every document purchased was heavily publicized; no suppression occurred. Trust me, as someone who's spent countless hours at LDS Archives and has been told there are documents and collections he can't see, I have plenty of frustrations. But that doesn't equate to a cover up - there's no smoking gun hiding in the stacks.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka Personally, I don't need any smoking gun, hidden information on them to see the religion for what it truly is.The things they embrace and promote are enough proof for me.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Baptizing other is not forcing beliefs on anyone. It's not. I don't care how much you think it is. It's not. We don't believe it is. Why should you?
Originally Posted By utahjosh I can see how someone might find it offensive, but it's not forcing beliefs on anyone. We don't think it makes you a member of our church.
Originally Posted By u k fan Not directly related to this conversation, but a friend of mine posted this on Facebook today. I couldn't help thinking of this conversation as I read it. <a href="http://www.danoah.com/2011/11/im-christian-unless-youre-gay.html" target="_blank">http://www.danoah.com/2011/11/...gay.html</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Reading this: >>I don't care how much you think it is.<< followed by: >>I can see how someone might find it offensive<< makes me think that Mitt Romney is posting as UtahJosh. >>We don't believe it is. Why should you?<< You don't get to decide what I believe Josh. I'm all for letting you believe whatever you'd like, so long as you don't cross over to disrespecting the beliefs of others. Like SPH said, that's when the gloves come off.
Originally Posted By ecdc What's troubling is Josh's obvious double-standard here. He's doing something and saying "My intentions are good, so why are you offended?" And yet, when someone else here posted links to details about the Mormon temple ceremony, Josh was very upset and...well...offended. It's that arrogance of "I know what's right, so I'm the arbiter of what's offensive." Can I repost those links and then say, "Well I don't mean to be offensive, so you shouldn't be offended." What's funny is--trust me on this--Mormons are absurdly hypersensitive when they feel like their sacred beliefs are trampled, yet they have no regard for what others hold sacred (unless they agree with that group already).
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I truly do not understand how any Mormon who has seriously looked into the history of the church and it's teachings could remain a member.<< Basically the point I made earlier. The North American "history" chronicled in the BoM is fiction. There is no archeological evidence to back up the LDS claims of a pre-Colombian Hebrew civilization in North America. None whatsoever. If they didn't exist then there was no "Prophet Mormon" and the only logical conclusion is the the BoM is a fabrication, a fraud.
Originally Posted By Donny As a member of the LDS Faith I blessed to belong to a group of wonderful people who constantly look for ways to better our local community and world.Our history is one of constant adversity by outside forces but in the end the LDS faith thrives.I know God speaks to our profit and guides our church as the Lord has guided me and my family.I can't see life without the church.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I know God speaks to our profit... >> Yeah, I know it's a misspelling. But this statement is closer to reality.
