Originally Posted By utahjosh In what way is that closer to reality? Would you like to substantiate your slander?
Originally Posted By utahjosh I thought of this thread when I read this article. <a href="http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700203415/What-is-sacred-Respecting-the-spiritual-beliefs-and-commitments-of-others.html?pg=4" target="_blank">http://www.deseretnews.com/art...tml?pg=4</a> If I may have unintentionally disrespected someone's beliefs, I'm sorry for that. But I don't apologize for testifying about mine.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Would you care to apply critical thinking skills to the fiscal operations of your church? I'm guessing no. LDS is financially tainted, just like most large religious organizations. Millions of dollars pumped into Prop 8, a CA ballot initiative, from the LDS coffers in SLC. Your church is more concerned with its own capitalism than the socialist teachings of Christ. Any way you slice it, the Mormon Church is more beholden to gold than the Golden Rule.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Millions of dollars pumped into Prop 8, a CA ballot initiative, from the LDS coffers in SLC.> Absolutely false. An insignificat amount was spent by the Church. The members, however, donated a TON. <Any way you slice it, the Mormon Church is more beholden to gold than the Golden Rule.> More wishing on your part.
Originally Posted By tink2680 I am LDS and I don't really like to get into these kind of discussions but I find it funny how serveral people in this thread have said things like..." how dare you offend me by offering me something that you find to be wonderful. So wonderful that you want to share. You are so horrible and stupid for trying to do what you think it right. I believe in live and let live, well except for you because you offended me. And of course since I don't understand you then of course you must be a cult. A horrible bigoted cult. " I don't want to fight, I just find it a bit hypocritical to lump all Mormons into one category while calling us bigots at the same time. You don't know me or you might know one of my best friends is gay and I support and love him just as much as all my other friends. I don't know a lot about plenty of other faiths but I certainly don't judge them. I appreciate those of you in this thread who have extended the same courtesy to my faith.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Absolutely false. An insignificat amount was spent by the Church." Does this mean you're going to hell for a lie like this? 'Cause this is fulla sh--.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I am LDS and I don't really like to get into these kind of discussions but I find it funny how serveral people in this thread have said things like..." how dare you offend me by offering me something that you find to be wonderful. So wonderful that you want to share. You are so horrible and stupid for trying to do what you think it right. I believe in live and let live, well except for you because you offended me. And of course since I don't understand you then of course you must be a cult. A horrible bigoted cult. " Because we don't want what you're offering, no matter how wonderful you might think it is. How freaking difficult is that to understand? We.Don't.Want.It.Period, end of discussion.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Why is Mormonism a cult? Because it requires you to believe in a man, Joseph Smith, in order to return to God. If you don"t believe that Joseph Smith, the man who lied about having multiple wives until the day he died (including other men's wives and minors), is a prophet of God and returned the truth to the Earth, then you can NOT return to God. Period. Mormonism is a cult. Sorry Josh. Ask a Mormon what the purpose of the Book of Mormon is. They will say robotically that it is another testament of Jesus Christ. The truth is that there are billions of people who already believe in Jesus without the BoM. In fact, the BoM does not prmotoe the belife in JC. It promotes the belief in Joseph Smith. At the end of the first missionary "discussion" the challenge given to investigators is to pray to God to know if the BoM true. If it is, then you know Joseph Smith was a prophet. To heck with JC, Joseph is the guy you need to have faith in. To prove it, Josh, if I believe that Joseph Smith was a lunatic, can I get to heaven (aka the celestial kingdom)?
Originally Posted By Donny Eighth Dwarf If you did serve a mission then you know you don't even have to know that J.S. even existed as long as you believe in the teachings in the B.O.M. & Would'nt you have believeve in men that wrote the Bible as well ???Jesus Christ is the leader of our Church and he is in the B.O.M.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <To prove it, Josh, if I believe that Joseph Smith was a lunatic, can I get to heaven (aka the celestial kingdom)?> That depends wholly on if God called Joseph Smith to be a Prophet. The same way that you can't think Moses and Peter were lunatics. Go against God and you don't get far.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Iteresting articles, one link is featured in the other: <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fred-karger/mormon-church-tries-to-re_b_739652.html" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...652.html</a> <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/24/ad-campaign-aims-change-americans-image-mormons/" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010...mormons/</a>
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Go against God and you don't get far." Your God is in no way my God.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I don't want to fight, I just find it a bit hypocritical to lump all Mormons into one category while calling us bigots at the same time.>> Tink, there is a big difference between individual parishioners and the larger organization to which they belong. Some of the most ecumenical people I've ever met were Catholics and Mormons. They didn't defend every single action of their churches, and did call them out when appropriate. But they also weren't huge cheerleaders for their churches, either. They were more concerned with their own personal faith and making a difference in the world than scoring points with their higher powers. They were born into these religious traditions while also believing that no one single religion was the "true" religion. I learned much from these people about the true lessons offered in the Bible, which fundamentalist noodleheads continue to twist and misinterpret in order to justify abusing others outside of their religious communities. Those are the hypocritical bigots we're referring to on these discussion boards. And unfortunately, those religious institutions are governed by such noodleheads.
Originally Posted By u k fan <<<They didn't defend every single action of their churches, and did call them out when appropriate. But they also weren't huge cheerleaders for their churches, either. They were more concerned with their own personal faith and making a difference in the world than scoring points with their higher powers. They were born into these religious traditions while also believing that no one single religion was the "true" religion.>>> That's exactly how I feel about myself!!!
Originally Posted By Donny I critisized my faith about Prop 8 and other things when I disagree but I am mostly proud to be LDS.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "That depends wholly on if God called Joseph Smith to be a Prophet" The evidence indicates that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and that the BoM is a fabrication.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <The evidence indicates that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and that the BoM is a fabrication.> Hardly a foregone conclusion.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Hardly a foregone conclusion.<< It's about as much as a foregone conclusion as Kennedy was killed by a lone gunman. Are other explanations possible? Sure, anything's possible. All the available evidence, coupled with Occam's Razor, suggests otherwise, however. Smith was a narcissist and the Book of Mormon is a fairly unremarkable book. Mormons rely on the absence of solid records (remember, the first Mormon document IS the Book of Mormon) to paint a divine picture. I remain certain that if we could travel back in time and observe Joseph Smith between 1824-1830, the story would be entirely unremarkable and easily explained, and God would have nothing to do with it. Mormons have a ton of explanations, some more plausible than others, for all the problems and thorny issues in their history. But the simplest and most rational explanation is, Joseph Smith was not a prophet.
