Originally Posted By cmpaley >>to many neels and stands and and smokes and waters and those robes all over the place. better to praise our lord and not those marys who have that statues.<< Some of us LIKE having sacramentals like holy water and appreciate the use of incense and vestments in worship. It's kinda like a preview of what will be going on in heaven. Check out the scenes of heaven in Revelation. Robes, incense, chalices, candles, etc...sounds rather Catholic/Orthodox to me! And no one worships Mary in the Catholic Church. She is revered greatly. After all, she IS the Mother of God. I have a devotion to her because she always points to Jesus. Check it out in the Bible. On two occasions, four times total, she is known to have spoken. First, at the Annunciation where the angel announces to her that she would be the mother of the Messiah. She asked, "How can this be as I know not man?" After she was told of what was in store for her, she said, "Be it done unto me according to your word." This shows Mary's humility and willingness to serve God completely. Second, at the Wedding of Cana, she came to Jesus with a problem. "They ran out of wine." Jesus warns her that there's no turning back if he does what she asks. She says, "Do whatever He says." Here, we see Mary telling people to do what Jesus tells them to do. Every single approved apparition of Mary has one theme: Penance and Prayer. The Rosary is, essentially, praying the Gospel (the Mysteries are all events from the life of Jesus and the blessed hope of all Christians). What's the fear fundamentalists have about Mary, I wonder?
Originally Posted By Lisann22 <<<Honestly, you sound like my last two confessors, both of whom are good, orthodox Catholic priests. The first one told me that I should remember God is a loving Father who cares for us. Last night, my regular confessor told me I shouldn't make such a big deal over what are, essentially, venial sins. He warned me that if I didn't stop being scrupulous in confession and about confession, he'd give me 4 million Rosaries as a penance.>>> I'm so pleased to read this. Not for your struggle cmpaley but that those you go to for guidance understand where you are at this time and place. ;>
Originally Posted By DlandJB Fact is, though, I only have to reach into my pocket and take out my Rosary to see proof of God's absolute love for me.>> You don't even have to do this, but if it helps you, absolutely do it. I still have my rosaries.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>You don't even have to do this, but if it helps you, absolutely do it. I still have my rosaries.<< Well, as you know, on the Rosary is a crucifix. That crucifix (which I transferred from another rosary because I've become to attached to it) is a visual reminder of God's love. On most Rosaries is also a medal with the Sacred Heart on one side. Interesting thing about the Sacred Heart: the flame above represents that Jesus' heart burns with love and mercy for sinners. More recently, the Divine Mercy devotion has become very popular among orthodox Catholics.
Originally Posted By DlandJB What's the fear fundamentalists have about Mary, I wonder?>>> Not fear, but a lack of understanding about her role which is sometimes fed by over "reverance" which frankly can often read like worship of Mary. You know or you will know people who take their devotion to Mary to such extremes that it appears to make her equal to the Trinity. It is easy to get carried away with Mary and the Saints. After all, we have more in common with them, they are easier to relate to in human terms. Biblically, we know very little about Mary. Historically she has been "over-played" (not exactly what I mean) by the devote and the Church so it is often hard to see her as a real woman. I always had trouble with the RCC assertion that after Jesus, Mary had no other children and remained a virgin. To what purpose? The bible speaks of other children and of the brothers of Jesus. Why take away true marriage to Joseph and siblings for Jesus? Why was it/is it important she remain a virgin if sex in marriage is a sacred gift from God? Anyway, not meaning to start anything. Mary is still special to me. Today happens to be the feast of St. Elizabeth Ann Seton who has been a very important spiritual role model to me too. But all are just supporting cast to God/Jesus in my opinion.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>I always had trouble with the RCC assertion that after Jesus, Mary had no other children and remained a virgin. To what purpose?<< Actually, there's a very good reason for that, but I won't go into it if you don't want to.
Originally Posted By DlandJB I know what the Church teaches. I just never felt there was enough biblical basis for it.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Funny how that's really only been happening over the past 40 years or so ago." Actually, it started with the Protestant Reformation.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy Wait, wait! No one laughed at 2oony's "best post of the thread": ------- >>Additionally, the Roman Catholic Church served to fill a power vaccuum after the fall of the western Roman Empire. It has spent the last 2000 or so years consolidating and strengthening its grip on its control of Europe. << And it would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those meddling kids.... ----- LOL!! Somebody get MissC in WE! Or maybe not---but at least tell her about the reference. ;-)
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy Well, it was too good to go without a comment. Who knew 2oony would have us rollin' in the threads in WE?? ;-)
Originally Posted By DlandJB Who knew 2oony would have us rollin' in the threads in WE??>>> I count on him!
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy I do too---he would make Buddy Sorrell proud! (just don't tell fodd I said that!)
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy This is for you 2oony and the topic: ------------- I don't know if you can hear me, or if you're even there. I don't know if you will listen to a gypsy's prayer. They tell me I am just an outcast, I shouldn't speak to you... Still I see your face, and wonder, were you once an outcast too? God help the outcasts, hungry from birth. Show them the mercy they don't find on Earth. The lost and forgotten, they look to you still. God help the outcasts, or nobody will. I ask for nothing, I can get by. But I know so many less lucky than I. God help the outcasts, the poor and downtrod. I thought we all were the children of God. I don't know if there's a reason; why some are blessed, some not. Why the few you seem to favor -- they fear us, flee us, try not to see us. God help the outcasts, the tattered, the torn. Seeking an answer to why they were born. Winds of misfortune have blown them about. You made the outcasts, don't cast them out. The poor and unlucky, the weak and the odd. I thought we all were the children of God. -------- There. Now we're on topic, *and* within Disney. ;-)
Originally Posted By DlandDug Offered without comment: >>I may hold your beliefs in disdain, but I don't hold you in disdain<< I don't buy the distinction.<< ................................... >>Homosexuality is not a sin, homosexual activity is. There's a distinction to be made.<<
Originally Posted By DlandDug I had been avoiding this topic, as it purportedly deals with the Catholic faith, and I'm not a Catholic. But I do want to offer a late comment on the insistence that an apology be offered for the use of the word "sanctimonious," on the basis that it was a charge of hypocrisy. When it comes to words, I can be rigidly orthodox. So the use of "Dictionary.com" as the source authority for the assertion riled me. (How can anyone trust a dictionary that has been around less than twenty years? I mean, really!) When in doubt, there is only ONE true source for those who speak the Mother Tongue. And that, of course, is the OED. Sanctimonious: 1. Possessing sanctity, holy in character, sacred, holy, consecrated (obselete) 2. Of pretended or assumed sanctity or piety, making a show of sanctity, affecting the appearance of sanctity I trust that we will all accept the final authority of the OED and realize that no charge of hypocrisy was intended.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka You don't have to be so sanctimonious about Dictionary.com, Dug. ;-)
Originally Posted By cmpaley RE: Post 215. The first use is listed as obsolete. They hypocrite one is not. My request stands.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 I have carefully read through these posts and IF ANYTHING cmpaley deserves an apology due to: /// I have NEVER been so insulted by anything I've read on these boards. You don't have a clue of the kind of person I am/// This is a huge overreaction on Belle's part. Look, neither one owes an apology but I found the above quote to be way unwarranted. ///That's a pretty crappy apology./// And melekalik, where did that come from? As if he needed to apologize in the first place. For what reason? If you would have read more carefully you would have found nothing wrong with his posts. You have a problem with the Church so you try to stick it to cmpaley. cmpaley is telling the world the rules and customs of the church, that's it. That is all he is doing and he is being honest about it. If you don't like the rules of the Church then tough, just deal with it but don't shoot the messenger. cmpaley has been very patient with the attacks on him and the church. He has politely and informatively answered or countered every attack. And just to tell a poster or two the word ///sanctimonious/// has a very nasty, biting and ugly connotation, even in the best light. So stop hiding behind seconday meanings or technicalities of the word because the world knows that it was used in a most derogatory way. One last thing in case anyone thinks that I am on the cmpaley payroll, I am not. Moreover, I am not a Catholic either and if anything I scoff at the Catholic ways.
