Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Hey, mele, Are you and I the only ones left?>> You thought cmpaley would stick around after being ganged up on as he has? I really think he has been misunderstood here. He has tried to communicate the official position of the Roman Catholic Church as best he could. At times he maybe could have expressed it better, but I've found many of his posts very interesting. I've learned things about the RCC that I never knew before. And perhaps wished I'd never found out about, but that's a whole different thread! When cmpaley states that the RCC says that you must do such and such or you will go to hell he is not making a personal judgment. He is merely stating the official RCC position. If he said he had a lock on the whole thing and that he always did things right and that he was for sure going to Heaven, THAT would be sanctimonious, arrogant and all of those other things he's been accused of. But he doesn't. In post after post cmpaley writes about how he frequently falls short of what the Church would like him to do. He is so harsh on himself that he goes to confession and confesses things that the Priest figures God would give him a do-over on and didn't really need to be confessed. Now if anyone made the claim that the Roman Catholic Church was sanctimonious and arrogant and holier than thou I think that would be perfectly fair and open to discussion. I think a majority of Catholics would probably agree that it is to some extent. I just think that people have turned their dislike of Catholic Dogma into a personal dislike of cmpaley and that isn't really fair. After all... he's just the messenger.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka I don't dislike cmpaley...I've been pretty supportive of his choice to join the church even if I really do not agree with a lot of the church's beliefs.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney Isn't cmpaley a she? BTW RT, I am a pro-life democrat too (re your post a while back). I think Jesus was too!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I don't dislike cmpaley...I've been pretty supportive of his choice to join the church even if I really do not agree with a lot of the church's beliefs.>> I wasn't directing my post at anyone specifically. I just quoted DyGDisney's that mentioned you because it was recent and it seemed to be asking why cmpaley wasn't around any more.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney Why did I think he was a woman? I must be getting him confused with someone else. I haven't been around for a few months. LOL,RT.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka I just felt like maybe I should let people know that I don't hate cmpaley. Hopefully he knows that too but I wouldn't blame him if he had his doubts. ;-)
Originally Posted By DlandJB Oh, don't be so hard on yourself, JB. You're just as bright as Billy Crystal, and I'm sure even funnier than Einstein! >>> That works!
Originally Posted By DlandJB It would be impossible for you to not be funnier than Billy Crystal.>> Before "Mr. Saturday Night" I might have argued the point. Still, I think he has his moments.
Originally Posted By DlandJB After all, being in a depression so deep that one would commit suicide really is hell in itself.>>> I want to address the suicide question. It is true, as CM mentioned that there was a time when the RCC immediately condemned someone who died by suicide. Most Christian churches did the same, and even forbade them from being buried in church cemetaries which were considered "hallowed ground." That isn't true anymore. That doesn't help the poster who had to deal with that condemnation after his mom's death. It isn't true of most Christian churches now either, including the Catholic Church, as everyone has a better understanding of mental illness and how often it will cause actions that are out of the control of the victim of it. To grow up with that in your head however, stinks. I had some trepidation when looking into the church I am now attending, because one of my sisters who is an evangelical had told me flat out that my late husband was in hell for committing suicide and that as soon as I and my kids accepted that (and, her words, that "he never loved us or he never would have done something like that") we could begin to heal. She has issues, to say the least. Happily, my evangelical church completely disagrees with her assessment and embraces the idea that we are not to judge and that someone who is suffering depression is not necessarily in control of themselves should they complete suicide. A lot of people can trace their disallusionment with the church or flat out disgust and estrangement from it to a priest or nun or teacher who was in a position of authority and totally abused that authority either verbally or physically. I hope there is a special place in hell for anyone whose activities caused someone else to lose their faith.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>"he never loved us or he never would have done something like that"<< Aye yi yi. What a thing to say.
Originally Posted By jonvn I do not dislike cmpaley at all. I simply find what he was saying to be nonsense. My verse was referring to nothing.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>Okay, I'm waaaaaaaay late for this one too, but here is what it actually says in Romans 3:23-28 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God has passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Were is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law." This is saying we are justified by faith ALONE. Also, the first verse is part of the issue we have with making Mary Holy. It says ALL have sinned, that includes Mary. Because we are born sinful creatures. The only one without sin is God, who was born as Jesus, without sin.<< Before I tackle the "faith alone" issue, I'd like to ask you...you say that all have sinned. That includes every single human being who ever lived from Adam and Eve to the present, right?
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>Isn't cmpaley a she?<< *Runs to bathroom and checks* Nope, I'm still a he.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>>I just wanted to say that I'm sorry your church as a kid told you your mother was in hell. In my church we don't believe suicide is an automatic ticket to hell, because as believers, our sins were forgiven before we commited them, when Christ died on the cross. So if a believer commits suicide, it is already forgiven. We are forgiven our sins when we accept Jesus as our savior. Sometimes as Christians we still have emotional and mental problems. I myself suffer from panic attacks and anxiety, and I know several other Christians who do also.<<< Thanks.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>Before I tackle the "faith alone" issue, I'd like to ask you...you say that all have sinned. That includes every single human being who ever lived from Adam and Eve to the present, right?<< Yes. This however excludes Jesus Christ because, even though He was born as a human, He was God made flesh. He was a perfect, sinless being of course, God does not sin.
