Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<Dr Hans Reinhardt: I've said for years now that Disney should take Tomorrowland out of the hands of the Imagineers and outsource its overall design to leading architects, scientists, and engineers with the mandate to come up with a wholly new vision. Clearly, if the folks on Flower Street are wasting time tossing around ideas for Tronland, they haven't the slightest clue what they are doing.>> Well, as it's usually Disney management that dictates the direction that they want Imagineering's attractions to go, I seriously doubt that they would bother spending money on some outsourced company to do the same thing. If Imagineers were given the FREEDOM and FUNDING they would have to spend on those leading experts, they could also come up with something worthwhile. Unfortunately, DISNEY is no longer up tho the challenge of the future. Just look at what's going in to Dubai. Disney didn't even consider entering that arena.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Imagineers were given the FREEDOM and FUNDING they would have to spend on those leading experts, they could also come up with something worthwhile." People really need to stop making excuses for WDI. They are just as much a part of the problem as the people in top management. The folks on Flower Street are far too entrenched in the Disney mindset to think on the level I'm talking about. Eisner had some measure of success outsourcing star architects to design buildings at the Glendale campus, DLR, WDW and DLP. Walt Disney consulted with top scientists of his day like Wernher von Braun for the original Tomorrowland, and futurists like Ray Bradbury were involved in the planning of Spaceship Earth at EPCOT. The mindset within the company evidently does not foster the kind of creative, innovative, and resourceful thinking necessary to envision a future that would resonate with today's audiences. Curiously Steve Jobs, who could be the poster child for personal technology in this new millennium, sits on the Disney board and yet he seems to be unaware that Tomorrowland could potentially could benefit as a showcase for his products and other technologies.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Have you guys seen what the Flower street does in its Den of Solitude? They make giant video games for cruise ships - which, btw, they're not even very good at. It's irony, they do something they're not very good at, refuse to house anything out under the guise of super-secretism, wont play nice with contractors, and then get one-upped almost immediately by their competition.
Originally Posted By Manfried Dr. Hans, you said it perfectly. I would also add that the older Imagineers, of whom so many have idolized, have such huge egos they do not listen to new ideas. A new, young Imagineering friend of mine says the politics there are still bad, and that the old guard needs to "stop guarding and start doing, or get the hell out of the way." Knowing that old guard the way I do, that ain't gonna happen soon. They're too stubborn and set in their ways. They also use certain other fan sites (no names here, but I am sure you can guess which they are) to further spread their message and idolization at the expense of fun, new, creative, and able to work day in and day out, stuff at the Disney theme parks. Another friend of mine, a really creative interactive type, is on board as a consultant, but says all they do is listen politely because they have to, then go off and try to do things themselves. But don't have a clue about how to do things. I thought Mister Pixar would have remedied all of this by taking a broom to the place. But, alas, I think it is a slow sweeping. Too bad, they really need to "retire" those that are left. Or make them Imagineer emeritus types so they can talk the talk, but not be allowed into Flower Street any more.
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<Manfried: I thought Mister Pixar would have remedied all of this by taking a broom to the place. But, alas, I think it is a slow sweeping. Too bad, they really need to "retire" those that are left. Or make them Imagineer emeritus types so they can talk the talk, but not be allowed into Flower Street any more.>> One of the biggest problems with "Mr Pixar" is that he aligned himself with the political faction that has been running the company for the past decade or so and that has allowed the environment there to continue to be stifled.
Originally Posted By believe Wasn't Mr Pixar fired by the "old guard"? He should know how the environment is.
Originally Posted By Manfried Actually I think the old guard sidled up to him. They know who butters their bread.
Originally Posted By avatarmickey115 I think that the People Mover, or any other attraction like it would be a horrible idea for Tomorrowland. Come on!!! It's TOMORROWland! It's supposed to represent the future! So why don't they put something on that track that has incredible technology and spice up the track a little...or alot...and design something that really IS futuristic! The whole concept of tomorrowland! The future! What is to come! Not some stupid train with tires for getting around! How is the People Mover traveling at 2MPH the future? the future will probably have lightning speed busses ahaha i dont know, but I;ve always been angry at how Disney hasn't touched that thing in years when there are so many possibilities for that track! And for the people that say it "invites" the whole family....I DONT THINK SO! How does a 2 mph ride attract the teens? Or the young adults? It only "attracts" the little kids! It's almost like the trams but inside the park! Sorry if I offended anyone by disagreeing with your opinion, but It's just sad that nothing has happened there for almost a whole DECADE!!!
Originally Posted By Dreamerica I loved The People Mover. I hope it comes back. For those of you who think it's not futuristic enough, look at it this way: Tomorrowland itself is the ride. The People Mover is simply the ride vehicle. Just like a Haunted Mansion Doom Buggy or a Small World boat. It doesn't have to be about showcasing it as some new form of transportation. It will bring movement back to the land and provide a nice way to sit back and relax while looking out at America's best theme park go by!
Originally Posted By avatarmickey115 That is true actually, i have to admit that tomorrowland would be the attraction, not the vehicle itself. But the possibilities for that stretch of track could house something way better! A relaxing ride to watch an amazing park go by is what the DLRR and the Monorail are for!
Originally Posted By Dreamerica I agree that something really cool and futuristic could go up on those tracks. Just as long as something gets back up there!
Originally Posted By Manfried Folks, the track is unsafe and needs to be torn down or completely rebuilt from scratch.
Originally Posted By avatarmickey115 yes! i know! so why dont they already so we can have another E ticket attraction!!!
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>The future! What is to come! Not some stupid train with tires for getting around!<< Who says a second generation Peoplemover would ride on a bed of tires? If anything .. a new ride system would probably entail a guide rail. Such as what the Rocket Rods used. >> How is the People Mover traveling at 2MPH the future? the future will probably have lightning speed busses << Tomorrowland is really a very compact land. You could stand at the center of the land where the Tomorrowlanding shop stands. A walk to any attraction is practically - A hop, skip, and a jump. Answer this for me - How do you represent a fast moving futuristic transportation system in a land that covers 10 acres - If that? This is not a huge city block .. or even Future World at EPCOT that could represent something on the level you are talking. The track is 4,000 feet in length. In the days of the Peoplemover where it road anywhere between 2 mph .. to 6mph it covered the track in 16 minutes. During Rocket Rods brief 18 month period .. it covered the track in just under 3 minutes. At times picking up speeds of around 30mph. With plenty of slow downs at the curves. If they banked it .. then a fast moving attraction would keep a consistent "fast" speed. Which means the ride will be even shorter than Rocket Rods. So ... if they attempt something with the kind of speeds you want .. the ride will be over in less than 2 minutes. Is that the kind of Disneyland rides you want? Rides that imitate Six Flags "adrenaline rush" Fix that last 10 to 60 seconds? They can't add enough track to make a fast ride long enough ..and entertaining enough to be called a "Disney" park attraction. Disney has built their long standing reputation on rides like Maliboomer, Superman Escape, FreeFall .. or just about anything where the ride runs at a minute or less. It's the immersive world's that we don't run through at a blink of an eye .. but adventures that run anywhere from 5 minutes to 20 minutes. Pick any classic - PotC, Haunted Mansion, it's a small world, even Big Thunder and Space Mountain have a running time of nothing less than 3 minutes. >>How does a 2 mph ride attract the teens? Or the young adults? It only "attracts" the little kids! It's almost like the trams but inside the park!<< Again ... what makes you think a new generation peoplemover is going to be JUST a "tram but inside the park"? Do you speak for every teen and young adult? You don't think some teens and young adults prefer nice leisurely rides where you could relax .. and just take in the nice sights? >>It only "attracts" the little kids!<< ... again ... where are you getting your information? The Peoplemover from 1967 to 1995 was not made for little kids. In it's run that spanned a total of 4 decades it entertained a wide range of ages. Show a me picture where the only patrons were kids under the age 10. I'll tell you what - With Space Mountain, Star Tours II, and other ideas that are currently in the blue-sky phase, that involve a Tron Light Cycle Ride contained in it's own showbuilding. Possibly a roller coaster type experience. Along with Wall-E ... I think Tomorrowlanad's future will have enough "fast" attractions for the Six Flags crowd who think they'll pass out, unless they get some thrill rush.
Originally Posted By oc_dean EDIT - Disney has _NOT_ built their long standing reputation on rides like Maliboomer, Superman Escape, FreeFall .. or just about anything where the ride runs at a minute or less.
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<Manfried: Folks, the track is unsafe and needs to be torn down or completely rebuilt from scratch.>> Actually, the People Mover beamway is NOT unsafe as long as it is used in a manner that fits it's structural limitations.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt All this talk about Disney making Tomorrowland actually live up to the goals Walt Disney established back in 1955 is futile. The modern Disney Company is completely incapable of crafting the kind realm that the Imagineers created back then, let alone the marvelous 1967 reincarnation or anything half as ambitious as EPCOT Center. Honestly dean, for Disney to do the kind of forward looking Tomorrowland that you and I would love to see the project would have to be overseen by a team of visionaries outside the employ of Disney. The best Imagineering can do today is slap a bunch of Jetsons type architecture down, throw in some ambiguously "futuristic" toon themed attractions, and rename the place Sciencefictionland or something like that. There is just no will within the company to make the area what it is supposed to be.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Well ... it's widely known that TL:98 was one of Tony Baxter's biggest lows in his career ... and I'm trying to have some faith, that he will do his best to fix Tomorrowland before he retires.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I like most of Tony's work - at least the stuff I'm aware that he's done. Maybe someone can prove me wrong, but he's never impressed me that he has the knowledge and understanding to be a visionary. My feeling is that he is so entrenched in the Disney mindset that he can't conceive of anything that isn't lathered in magic, dreams, and wishes. They really need to consult and brainstorm with some real world scientists, architects, engineers, and transportation experts to execute the job in a manner befitting the goals set forth by Walt Disney for the land.
