Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 I think people just have a knee-jerk reaction to the word "socialism", and "communism" can be thrown in there too. We already have socialist policies, and have for years, but there is this fear that when it's mentioned it means "spread the wealth" and people get all panicked like we're going to turn into something like the Soviet Union...
Originally Posted By utahjosh Socialism and Communism are NOT what American should be moving toward. Not saying that we're going to be communist, but I prefer liberty and freedom to succeed over government mandate that I succeed.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Socialism and Communism are NOT what American should be moving toward. Not saying that we're going to be communist, but I prefer liberty and freedom to succeed over government mandate that I succeed.<< Freedom! Liberty! Justice! Baseball! Hot dogs! Apple pie and Chevrolet! Spare us the platitudes, unless you can show us how they're going to put people back to work. The Republican religion has failed. Dittoheads are the new Moonies. Your rah-rah buzzwords don't interest me anymore.
Originally Posted By mawnck Sick of it, I am. Turn on the waterworks, turn off the brain - that's all those words have done since time immemorial. My attitude now - shuddup and solve the problems.
Originally Posted By utahjosh mawnck, it seems as if you don't really trust the constitution and the ideals of founders of the USA. The government is moving AWAY from those ideals of limited government, there is no doubt about it.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I hate the trophy-kids syndrome going on in our country. I hate the idea that someone can't fail. I don't want a government to provide me with happiness. I just want to be able to pursue it. We don't need a babysitter government, we need to stand up and be self-sufficient people. If we don't, we'll fall to ruin.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>mawnck, it seems as if you don't really trust the constitution and the ideals of founders of the USA.<< To quote some old President, can't remember his name right off the top of my head ... "There you go again." Constitution! Ideals! Founders! Valley Forge! Pony Express! Louisiana Purchase! The REAL Constitution, as opposed to the "ideals of limited government" Rush Limbaugh version, says something, oh what was it again? "in order to form a more perfect union" The heck with your idealistic fairy tales. Your union is hosed, and buzzwords won't repair it. Oddly enough, despite all this, I agree with everything in post 27. But I also believe that the conservatives, and their support-big-business-and-peasants-be-damned policies, have been more effective at preventing the pursuit of happiness than any New Deal/big government program that has ever been proposed. "Stand up and be self-sufficient" should not be the same thing as "bend over and take it."
Originally Posted By dshyates Who really can blame Rush. The GOP is in absolute disarray and and leaderless. He has always trumpeted conservative values. He is just trying to rally the base around ideology and the leader will emerge. Someone like Sarah Palin. If Rush keeps talking Sarah Palin gets stronger to a base that will continue to shrink and be marginalized.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Why all the hate on words like liberty, independence, and freedom? They do still have meaning.
Originally Posted By mele <<Why all the hate on words like liberty, independence, and freedom? They do still have meaning. >> You so do not get it. LOL
Originally Posted By utahjosh You, my friend, don't get it. They are NOT just buzzwords. They are not idealistic fairy tales. America, as was founded, is not a myth. The principles of LIBERTY, FREE ENTERPRISE, etc are still the core of our country. Well, I hope they still are...
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh I don't think it's utahjosh that doesn't get, or conservatives who have shut off their brains. I think it's the liberals that think that a big government solution is going to fix things, when it hasn't in the past, that are the ones who are a blade shy of a sharp edge. It wasn't conservative ideals that caused the problems in our economy.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Why all the hate on words like liberty, independence, and freedom? They do still have meaning. << Yeah, that you're about to take it in the shorts. Fool me once, shame on you. >>If Rush keeps talking Sarah Palin gets stronger to a base that will continue to shrink and be marginalized.<< Actually, the whole Rush thing has started to get entertaining, and reflects just how hosed the Repubs are. The Dems are having a great time declaring Rush the leader of the Repub party, and the Repubs can't do a dang thing about it except go on TV and kiss Rush's butt, because if they don't, the foamer segment of their base will turn on them. But if they do, everyone left of Hannity abandons them. Here's an example. It's a hoot. <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/28/norah-odonnell-slams-gop_n_161988.html" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...988.html</a>
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains I don't want a government to provide me with happiness. I just want to be able to pursue it. We don't need a babysitter government, we need to stand up and be self-sufficient people. I don't really think they had <the trophy-kids syndrome> I don't know the solution for the country right now - but I do think a change is necessary - maybe this change won't be the right one - but change has to start somewhere.
Originally Posted By mele First of all, Josh, I'm not your friend. I'm not worthy of the same rights as you, remember? What you don't get is that your reaction to those words is what makes the words just trite buzzwords. You are the one who is makes them false because you are so easily manipulated by them. Your slightly hysterical posts to what mawnck is trying to say prove it. It's the same BS that Bush and his cronies pulled after 9/11. But keep ranting about the culture war and other lame buzzwords. I guess it keeps you from doing any real thinking about the subject.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>It wasn't conservative ideals that caused the problems in our economy.<< It wasn't ideals at all. It was a couple administrations in a row that allowed greedy rich people to, en masse, engage in outrageous lending practices for their own personal gain, when anyone who looked at the numbers would be able to tell it was a big ponzi scheme that was guaranteed to collapse eventually. But the point is this. The idea that the rich, in general, are (1) patriotic (2) concerned about the people who work for them (3) not going to keep every dime for themselves that they possibly can, regardless of the source (4) going to behave responsibly if you don't force them to has been totally, permanently, decisively discredited. That's what so many of the Repubs, in particular Rush, don't get. At least in regards to the economy. Their obstinate refusal to rely on experts, science, and common sense to create policy on practically everything is just a bonus.
Originally Posted By utahjosh < Your slightly hysterical posts > Please, compare them to posts 23 and 28 and tell me again that MY posts were "slightly hysterical." Now THAT'S hysterical.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <The idea . . . has been totally, permanently, decisively discredited.> I'm not aware that idea was ever the cornerstone of conservative philosophy.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "My attitude now - shuddup and solve the problems." You what? I agree wholeheartedly. A good example is the medical system in Canada. Of course it has its problems, but EVERYONE in that country has access to medical care and yet no one thinks of that nation as socialist. We really need to stop thinking that our way of doing things is the only and best way. It's beyond obvious that something is wrong. ?We can do better.
