Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <The Republicans need to stop being obstructionists.> Why? The bill stinks. The Democrats have the majority - they want it, they can pass it. They don't need Republican votes. <You can't make crap up and spew it on TV and expect THIS president to smirk and shrug.> Can THIS President make crap up and spew it out and expect the Republicans to smirk and shrug?
Originally Posted By gadzuux But that's the thing - the situation is not 'even steven'. Obama's calling the shots, not the republicans. And I'm not aware that he's making anything up. On the other hand, we have the GOP - who are leveling charges that Obama is manipulating the situation through the media, when they're madly doing the same thing. If anything, he's playing catch-up to the republican talking heads who have been mischaracterizing this bill from the outset. They're also acting indignant about the process while conveniently forgetting that this is only "part 2" of a bailout process started by and endorsed by their own party. The real question isn't whether a stimulus package is necessary, it's how to allocate the funds. Yet the republicans are out there saying "it'll never work". Where were they when Bush was pleading for instant support for his own bailout? The GOP is exhibiting partisanship for it's own sake. What makes it extra ridiculous is that they proposed the SAME THING just five months ago. They were okay with it when Bush was president, now suddenly it's irresponsible spending when the democrats follow through on the exact same program. You can't have it both ways.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh It's not the same program, and a lot of Republicans opposed the one then.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***<The Republicans need to stop being obstructionists.> Why? The bill stinks.*** I'm going to ask this in the most excellent spirit of true understanding, because I will right now admit that I don't know all that much about the bill. Douglas, could you tell me, IN DETAIL, exactly what parts of the bill you think "stinks", along with what parts you feel are good, and what parts you feel have potential. If you can offer me some details, I want to go check it out more (I did read some of the proposals, but not all), but if you want to just say "the bill stinks", that's fine too (you have every right to, I guess). SO, I'm asking you to talk about your grievances, in detail. Are you really saying the whole darned thing is a smoldering piece of crap which will only lead to much worse depression of the economy? If so, go for it. I'm just really trying to get a feel for which details are really bothering you. And why.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 yep- it's all the GOP's fault -- as of this AM the stimulus bill is up another $112B -- sitting at $937 -- everyone trying to get theirs in.... where does it stop-- how much is OK ? Yep the DEM's are showing them - don't pass it we'll add even more to it - and we'll get no critcism because it's all partisanship and that appears to only apply one way now. There are plenty of people who need their hands slapped over this - and they are not ALL under the elephant. WE have to pay for this you know- they're not printing free money. The bill cannot only be a tax cut bill- I absolutely agree- but it can't be a bullcrap bill so that some Dem pols can pretend they're CEO's now also.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Douglas, could you tell me, IN DETAIL, exactly what parts of the bill you think "stinks", along with what parts you feel are good, and what parts you feel have potential.> Here's a good summary: <a href="http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjcyODIyZGM2MGU1ZDdkNDgxZDc3OTNjYjM4ZDY1ODI=" target="_blank">http://article.nationalreview....ZDY1ODI=</a> Here's a speech Sen Coburn just gave about all the problems with the stimulus: <a href="http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=LatestNews.FloorStatements&ContentRecord_id=4236bb6f-802a-23ad-45a6-e9dee3004bdb&Issue_id=" target="_blank">http://coburn.senate.gov/publi...ssue_id=</a>
Originally Posted By dshyates I like how the Republicans are going to let the country go down in flames over .5% of the plan because its a dem dream, even though the Repubs have added more than that amount in repub dream worthless tax cuts. The republicans really have lost their frickin' minds.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Here's a good summary: <a href="http://article.nationalreview....ZDY1ODI=" target="_blank">http://article.nationalreview....ZDY1ODI=</a> Here's a speech Sen Coburn just gave about all the problems with the stimulus: <a href="http://coburn.senate.gov/publi...ssue_id=" target="_blank">http://coburn.senate.gov/publi...ssue_id=</a>" The question asked was what YOU thought, not the National Review or Coburn. If you agree with everything there, say so. If not, with which parts do you disagree?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Hundreds of billions of dollars isn't .5% of the plan." This is your entire position on the Stimulus package?
Originally Posted By dshyates They are not arguing over 100s Billions. The Republicans are pointing at stuff like $800,000 for a frisbee golf course at a park. And going ballistic. Yes what they are arguing over is less than 1% of the bill. But Ooooohhhhh Nooo they aren't being obstructionists. Nope no way.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <This is your entire position on the Stimulus package?> No, that is my response to dshyates' claim. My entire response to the bill was, "The bill stinks." The majority of the items in this bill will result in transferring wealth from our children and grandchildren to fat cats in Washington. Education and health spending are things which should be dealt with by state and local governments. Having the federal government pick winners and losers increases the money going to lobbying and therefore corruption.
Originally Posted By dshyates Thats absurd. Are you guys really so disenfranchised and focusless that this is the best you got? Thats crap and you are going to let the country go down in flames over bitter fantasy.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <The Republicans are pointing at stuff like $800,000 for a frisbee golf course at a park.> And there's 736 pages of that. <Thats crap and you are going to let the country go down in flames over bitter fantasy.> What's crap and what's bitter fantasy is that the nation will go down in flames if we don't pass this bill.
Originally Posted By dshyates "What's crap and what's bitter fantasy is that the nation will go down in flames if we don't pass this bill." He inlies the issue. No we are getting to the bottom of things. The financial crisis is fantasy. Now I get it. I guess its a, what did Gramm say?, oh yeah, a mental recession, and we are a nation of whiners. Tell that to those fathers that have lost their jobs twice this year and are currently unemployeed. Like ME!
Originally Posted By mawnck I'm opposed to a $800,000 frisbee golf course. No matter what percentage of the package it is.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <The financial crisis is fantasy.> No, the financial crises is real. But how can the answer to it be more borrowing and spending, when we've been doing that for the last 8 years.
Originally Posted By dshyates i would perfer there not be ANY of that kind of stuff (most tax cuts and fluff like frisbee golf), but that is the nature of bipartisanship. Its called comprimise. There will end ip being both in the final bill. So we will have something to point at and say WTF!?! PS, I DO like the GOP tax rebate on people who buy cars. That will actually stimulate. But the philosophy that cutting corporate tax rates crates jobs is a myth. If an employer has a six month inventory of product they can't sell. Cutting their tax rate isn't going to create jobs. They aren't going to hire people to sit in the lounge.
Originally Posted By dshyates "But how can the answer to it be more borrowing and spending, when we've been doing that for the last 8 years." If you borrow and give it all to Haliburton, who is a UAE based company, it doesn't help at all. And you end up where we are now. But a Stimulus Bill, by its very nature is a spending package. That is the entire point of a stimulus bill.
