Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Every time there are public works projects, there are some people complaining about pork and boondoggle. Sometimes the complaints are justified, but ... The Golden Gate Bridge probably didn't "need" to look as nice as it does. It could have been simply bare bones functional. But since it is not only a useful structure but also an American icon, it draws tourists from around the globe to see it in person, pouring who knows how much into the local and state economy over the past 60 years. Was it too expensive in its day? Was the extra money spent then to give it those distinctive art deco flourishes, and the jobs it created, foolish, wasteful, socialist stuff? Or a real bargain over the long run?
Originally Posted By dshyates You know how is the MOST livid at the capitol hill GOPers. The GOP Governors. Some of which are paying their employees with IOUs. They are literally bancrupt, and the capitol hill GOPers are stonewalling for tax cuts for Lockheed Martin.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <If you borrow and give it all to Haliburton, who is a UAE based company, it doesn't help at all.> Good thing we didn't do that then.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <The Golden Gate Bridge probably didn't "need" to look as nice as it does.> The Golden Gate wasn't paid for by the federal government. If the feds weren't sucking so much of our tax dollars, maybe local govenments could afford to pay for things themselves. They'd probably get a lot more for their money as well, since the cream wouldn't be sucked off by federal bureaucrats and lobbyists.
Originally Posted By gadzuux We don't know where the first bailout money went - over $350 billion dollars is essentially unaccounted for. Forever. I clearly remember assurances that transparancy and accountability were built into the september package. They lied. These major financial institutions and industries came to "us" - we the people - with their hats in hand asking for us to stave off complete collapse and 'lending' them hundreds of billions of american taxpayer dollars. There was nowhere else for them to turn - it was either bailout or certain doom. Three months later they awarded themselves over a billion dollars in personal "bonuses". And apparently, under the terms established by the GOP led bailout, they could. This isn't transparancy and accountability - it's corruption. And theft on a massive order of magnitude. And this is what we've come to expect from the republican party - victimizing the public at large in order to serve the interests of corporations and the financial elite. It's a government designed to support an autocracy. So for the republican leadership to now stand up and point at THIS stimulus package and call it wasteful and irresponsible shows just how crazy they really are. I suppose they think that people won't notice all the inconsistencies and the blinding hypocrisy of what they're doing and saying today as opposed to what they were doing and saying just five short months ago.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <You know how is the MOST livid at the capitol hill GOPers. The GOP Governors.> I doubt that. Several GOP governors, while they don't want their states to get shafted if the feds start ladling out pork, don't support this bill. I think its the Democrat governors, who raised spending too much in the last few years and so are facing massive deficits, that are angry that the GOP is standing in the way of their bailout.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I think its the Democrat governors, who raised spending too much in the last few years and so are facing massive deficits, that are angry that the GOP is standing in the way of their bailout." Facts to support this assumption?
Originally Posted By gadzuux I can't speak for other states, but california has been undergoing drastic deficits and dire deficits. This isn't because of irresponsible spending - we've been slashing public programs for over four years. But the economic downturn has drastically reduced incoming taxes. Most state taxes are derived from sales tax and property tax. Both have nosedived. I'm sure other states must be experiencing similar circumstances. But douglas mirrors the GOP position perfectly - "It's your own damn fault for being so irresponsible with money". Not all that far away from "get off of my lawn!"
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <And apparently, under the terms established by the GOP led bailout, they could.> The Democrats were in control of both houses of Congress. They're responsible for the bill. <So for the republican leadership to now stand up and point at THIS stimulus package and call it wasteful and irresponsible shows just how crazy they really are.> Even if it was the same GOP leadership that supported the bank bailout as is opposing this spending bill, which it isn't, how is it logical to say, "We screwed up last time, so we've got to support screwing up again".
Originally Posted By dshyates <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/31/republican-governors-urge-congress-pass-stimulus/" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/politic...timulus/</a>
Originally Posted By gadzuux The first bailout was created and led by the bush administration, right from within the white house. They were slow to start, but once they got their footing they were out there every day urging the public and congress to pass their bill without delay. Even McCain got in on the drama, as we all remember so well, and threw his full support behind it. Bush's bill went through the full congressional wringer on it's way to passage, but it was only augmented by the democratic house. But it's not surprising to see that conservatives would try to sidestep accountability for their own actions. As usual.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <"I think its the Democrat governors, who raised spending too much in the last few years and so are facing massive deficits, that are angry that the GOP is standing in the way of their bailout." Facts to support this assumption?< Can only speak for Illionois here- the state deficit they thought was going to be around $3B when they dug through all the thinks Giv Rod screwed up - didn't pay etc.--- today stands at $9B and rising - the new governor already headed to meet with Obama to see what he could get out of the stimulus package as we are totally screwe here. They are talking about raising the state income tax from 3.5% to 8% !!! ALready passing a bill to add more state taxes per gallon of gasoline. this was all under 100% DEM control - in Illinois-- no GOPers to blame here.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <But it's not surprising to see that conservatives would try to sidestep accountability for their own actions.> Conservatives are not responsible for everything the Bush administration did.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder That's like saying parents aren't responsible for their kids.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "No, it's not." It absolutely, beyond any question, is exactly like it. And I know you know this, but when you post things like "No, it's not" without explaining why, which you've done hundreds of times on LP, and then run away, it is what makes you such a pariah here. This is NOT a personal attack, but an obvious comment. If you truly want to debate, then finally stop doing crap like this, or contine to have threads get closed again and again as it becomes all about you.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <It absolutely, beyond any question, is exactly like it.> No, it's not.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh I'd counter the facts and logic of your analysis, but there weren't any.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> The Democrats were in control of both houses of Congress. They're responsible for the bill. << and ... >> Conservatives are not responsible for everything the Bush administration did. << First, you try and lay responsibility for the original september bailout on the democrats. Then, when challenged on it, you attempt to disavow the bush administration's actions as if conservatives had nothing to do with him and his presidency. You're fooling no one. But keep trying.
