Originally Posted By Mr X ***It is what Winnie the Pooh should have been*** Come again? OH, you're talking about the crappy Anaheim version!!!!!????? Nevermind.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Good points Kar2oonMan. I guess this raises the question about whether or not Disney should be introducing new C or B or even A ticket caliber attractions to the parks or not. To me Pooh, like most of the Fantasyland rides, is filler. I get that technologically speaking Pooh isn't equal to Mission: Space, but at the same time DL has a history of creating a wide variety of ride experiences. Even with its shortcomings and incongruous location Pooh continues that tradition.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Pooh is a great attraction to take toddlers on while parents use baby switch on Splash Mountain. Lol. Shame.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I get that technologically speaking Pooh isn't equal to Mission: Space*** Wait, WHAT!? Oh...sorry. Still talking about the crappy Anaheim version. The REAL Pooh ride actually blows Mission: Space right out of the water (as we all well know!). (and I'm a fan of Mission: Space actually)
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Even with its shortcomings and incongruous location Pooh continues that tradition*** No. It sucks.
Originally Posted By Mr X Quick reminder... <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFWhL262u8A" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...hL262u8A</a> How does this DCA Mermaid shoehorn thing compare?
Originally Posted By gadzuux The problem with 'Pooh' is that this iteration was the third time they had created an attraction for Pooh. And each one got progressively worse. TDL's Pooh is a hallmark of the park, and one of the most ambitious and popular rides they have. WDW's Pooh was decidedly less, yet still more involving than the lackluster DL version. If it's taken on it's own individual merits, it's "fine for kids". That's a low hurdle to hit. But DLs Pooh does not exist in a vacuum. Disney had already demonstrated an ability to create something better and more universally appealing. They deliberately chose to squeak by with the barest minimum on DLs version. AND they replaced an elaborate AA filled extravaganza with this cut rate ride. AND they plopped it into Critter Country where it doesn't relate to it's surroundings. AND it's far far away from anything else that its target demographic would enjoy. In sum, DLs Pooh is a misfire at best, and will always be a "red headed step child" within the park.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Why is it that every time there's a discussion about Winnie the Pooh at DL we have to get a string of posts from a TDL fan about how marvelous Pooh in Tokyo is along with the obligatory Youtube video links?
Originally Posted By SafariRob >>Were you around before the 1989 remodel Rob? The exterior was like walking up to a ride at a carnival<< I was indeed around but I must confess that I don't remember much about the old Fantasyland...especially the cheap-looking Peter Pan facade in that picture. They could do a much better job now with some cool interactive elements. Now you got me thinking about the old Jolly Roger restaurant. :-( Thanks a lot! They should bring that back (and justify the cost by making it a character dining experience!)
Originally Posted By Mr X ***The problem with 'Pooh' is that this iteration was the third time they had created an attraction for Pooh. And each one got progressively worse*** If I'm not mistaken the WDW version came first. THEN Tokyo. Anaheim was the last (crappy) version. ***Why is it that every time there's a discussion about Winnie the Pooh at DL we have to get a string of posts from a TDL fan about how marvelous Pooh in Tokyo is along with the obligatory Youtube video links?*** Perhaps because the Tokyo attraction is incredible? And the others suck? And because some of us want Disney to deliver in the way we ALL know then can, since they went ahead and proved it (check out the "obligatory" video if you don't believe me lol)!!?? I, for one, am SICK of reading crap about "it's okay, it's not SUPPOSED to be so great" garbage. And if someone brings up a topic like this, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be involved, AND pointing out the obvious, AND demanding that Disney deliver the goods like they are fully capable of doing. If you don't like it, sue me.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "They could do a much better job now with some cool interactive elements." Agreed. "If you don't like it, sue me." Over some foolishness about a Winnie the Pooh ride? No need. You win. Some people take this stuff way to seriously, which was really the point I was trying to make.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 The Tokyo version is obviously a lot more elaborate and costly (and I wish DL or WDW would apply the same technology to a more interesting subject than Pooh - it seems a natural for a rejuvenated TL if they ever get around to it). But the differences between the DL and WDW versions seem minor at best to me. It's hard to say why some dark rides work better than others. Not long ago I opined that non-linear rides that don't attempt to tell a 90-minute movie in 3 minutes and just create an environment without worrying about plot points too much work better than those that try to "retell" the movie, and this is why I think PPF, MTWR have always worked better than SW and PDJ, with Alice in the middle. I also think that Pooh suffers from having the set pieces too far away (Monsters to an extent too) - they seem to work better when the sets are more "in your face." I think abstraction and impressionism work best in dark rides. Strangely enough, that means I think that sometimes flats work BETTER than maquettes. I mean, think of the MTWR flat with the two drivers in the truck who are slamming on the breaks as your car approaches. Would that really work better as a maquette? I don't think so - there's something somehow appealing about it being 2D and "cartoony" in a very cartoony ride. Hard to describe. But the versions they have in DL now are NOT the versions from my childhood, so I don't think it's just nostalgia working here... to me, PPF and MTWR are splendid examples of the form, Alice, RR, and Monsters are pretty good, and SW, Pinocchio, and Pooh just don't work as well. A dark ride can be thought of as a genre, just like a comedy (or drama or adventure) movie. And some movies work better than others - for whatever reasons. Same with dark rides.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I think abstraction and impressionism work best in dark rides. Strangely enough, that means I think that sometimes flats work BETTER than maquettes." Yep. Much of the Roger Rabbit attraction uses painted flats and that attraction is one of my favorites.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I wish DL or WDW would apply the same technology to a more interesting subject than Pooh*** Me too! I'm no fan of Pooh, trust me! But I can't help but marvel at the incredible attraction they created in Tokyo (it's consistently in my personal "top 3" as far as greatest theme park attractions are concerned!). MY wish is that they deliver this same level of quality on ALL their newest offerings. I hate the cheap stuff. And Walt Disney did, too! Given the age and the technology and the budget available to him at the time, Walt delivered a huge "wow" with pretty much all of the attractions in his park. For me, Pooh in Tokyo is something Walt would have approved of. The cheap stuff we see so often? Not so much. (I'm not trying to channel the guy or anything, it's just the impression I get from the legacy he left behind)
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I also think that Pooh suffers from having the set pieces too far away (Monsters to an extent too) - they seem to work better when the sets are more "in your face."*** Like Pooh, Monsters is also incredible at Tokyo Disneyland. AND, the sets are totally "in yer face", just the way you wish they would be. Let's face it, folks. Disney is more concerned with keeping it cheap in America. If they wanted to do it right, they easily could (and they stuck their best work way out in Tokyo on some other companies' nickel where most "fans" would never see it...which is why it pisses people off when I dare to point it out).
Originally Posted By Mr X <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5rYQn3j68s&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...=related</a> (sorry if this bothers you, Hans)
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Go ahead and toot your horn X. I've been to TDL and for those who haven't please note that much of it is not elaborate, extravagant, or memorable. Fantasyland and much of Tomorrowland, for example, could use serious makeovers. That boring entrance to Peter Pan that used to be at Disneyland? Well, Tokyo's is only slightly better even today: <a href="http://images.ookaboo.com/photo/m/TDL_Peter_Pan_27s_Flight_m.jpg" target="_blank">http://images.ookaboo.com/phot...ht_m.jpg</a> Note that it opened one year BEFORE DL's remodeled version did: <a href="http://www.thetownmenu.com/disneyland/attractions/peterpan/Resources/bdisneylandpeter.jpeg" target="_blank">http://www.thetownmenu.com/dis...ter.jpeg</a> I will give Japanese management kudos though for keeping a clean house and running a tight show. TDL is spotless and very well maintained. And they have the greatest Winnie the Pooh Ride in the world.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Go ahead and toot your horn X*** Whatever. I care about good quality theme park attractions, and I don't care for people who apologize for cheap garbage with limitless excuses. Again, sue me.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***And they have the greatest Winnie the Pooh Ride in the world*** Unsurprisingly dismissive, as usual. The correct phrase would be, they boast one of the greatest theme park attractions on the planet, namely the Winnie the Pooh ride.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I've been to TDL and for those who haven't please note that much of it is not elaborate, extravagant, or memorable*** It's well done and well run, but you are correct that it's aging and some areas need improvement. I don't know if anyone actually tried to MAKE that argument besides yourself, but whatever...I THOUGHT we were talking about individual attractions here but you want to bring other stuff us so that's cool, I guess. But park-wise, if you're looking for "elaborate, extravagant, and memorable", one needs only to hop on a monorail for a quick ride over to DisneySea.
