Originally Posted By Fe Maiden <<And why would Disney want to fight for the three and under crowd. Those kids get in for free, and stay in the hotels for free, and eat very little.>> Well let's see, my first trip was when I was three and we went back every two or three years from '74 to '94. A few of those vacations were through the Magic Kingdom Vacation Club, I think it was called, in fact I think my parents are still paying those vacations off. My wife and I took our 2 year old last November for our first family trip and spent a small fortune, though his cost was relatively little. And since we had such a great time and were already making plans to go again with our newest addition, we decided to go ahead and buy into to the DVC.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I'd say it was additional theming for the Pooh ride that was severly lacking. Instead of just plan asphault, we now have an area that is more appropriately themed while still having the space to add at least two additional rides> I'd say the land used is not adjacent to the Pooh ride - but across the walkway and part of the land needed for any future attraction. And if that playground is the quality level of what we are going to get for 'additional theming' - then we really shoul dbe complaining. And if you wouldn't call it a replacement for the E ticket after 12 years now -- what is the replacement ? The hill ? ( which by the way I prefer to the playground) Facts are facts -- after 12 years this is what you got.....do you even hear any rumors of additional attractions o n that land - no. And mark my words-- the minute it even comes up, the fact thaty the playground is there, as small as it may seem, it will become a conveniently logisitical problem for whatever else could be added.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I understand that some "single" adults find it childish and not worthy of the high cost of admission < let's just not pin this on the single adults-- there are plenty of us adults with kids that think it is a ruse.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Iron, but I don;t see in your post where they had this 'really rad playground' that convinced you that DVC was the place to spend your money. Heck the first DVC units were all at what is now Key West ( where I am an owner too - as well as Vero) - and remember there was no slide at the pool, and the one play area consisted of some sand next to the pool-- if there was a playground there instead of Olivia's or the Welcome House or the marina -- how 'great' would that have been ? it wouldn't. Playground are for neighborhoods, not theme parks. The money spent on that Pooh playround for instance ( and it is probaby far more than it looks like it is worth ( which is very little) - could have been spent on the maintenance we have been crying about, on rehabbing CoP to update it, to keeping Timekeeper open, or to add on the the 2 already existing play areas in MK -- Donalds Boat -- which is where it belongs -- or Tom Sawyer island -- did we really need a 3rd playground there ? Is the Fantasyland experience now so much better ? No
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Little kids like playgrounds. There are plenty of activities at WDW for adults that can be found very easily at home also. WDW devotes substantial real estate to restaurants, entertainment and retail; most of which is duplicated in any large American city. Yet I don't hear anyone complaining about that. You wanna see Cirque? Go to Vegas for chrissakes... you can see a handful of Cirque shows there. You want to shop at a Virgin Megastore? Heck vbdad, you have one of those right there in Chicago. Sure as heck don't need one at WDW. Rainforest Cafe... I've got one here in Minneapolis at the Mall of America. Overpriced crappy food here, same as in Orlando. Who needs it? So you can find playgrounds at home. So what? The little kids like them. God knows there is enough stuff at WDW that the little ones have absolutely no interest in. Are you going to begrudge them a thousand square feet in each of the parks so they can have something they enjoy? <<Then little children were brought to Walt for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But vbdad rebuked those who brought them. Walt said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the Kingdom of Magic belongs to such as these.">>
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden vbdad55, It wasn't just one thing that made us buy and believe me playgrounds would be at the bottom of the list, but at the top is the fun we all have when were there. I was responding to someone who couldn't figure out why Disney might cater to little kids. In my case, the past 30 years and a lifetime of more planning is reason enough. If a family goes to WDW and everyone including the littlest ones have a great time more than likely they'll be back. Would I rather see a C, D, or E ticket rather than a playground? Sure. But if you asked me that question regarding parades or some castle show I'd say the same thing. While a castle show has zero interest for me, I appreciate that it's another offering that appeals to a whole different segment of guests. Years ago, one of our few non-WDW vacations, my family and friends of ours spent the week in Cape Cod. Quite frankly, none of us really enjoyed it except for my friend's younger brother who was 6yo at the time. Months later when we talked about going on another trip together the 6yo wanted to go back to Cape Cod. For the life of us we couldn't figure out why. He said that he wanted to go back because the whiffle ball games we played were so much fun. For some reason the countless whiffle ball games we played in the back yard weren't magical enough for him.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Would I rather see a C, D, or E ticket rather than a playground? Sure. But if you asked me that question regarding parades or some castle show I'd say the same thing. While a castle show has zero interest for me, I appreciate that it's another offering that appeals to a whole different segment of guests. < but this is exactly the point - can you not see the trend here towards cheaper and cheaper replacements ? If there was one playground in all of WDW - hey fine -- but we have a large one in the Studios passing as an attraction, we already have 2 ( count em 2) in MK -- Tom Sawyers Island - nicely done and DOnald's Boat - exactly where it belongs in Toon Town. -- There was need for a 3rd ? How about a 4th - a 5th etc...? I would rather have seen nothing in this case than the load of xxxxx they built in Fantasyland. There are play areas in many of the resorts, there are 2 water parks that are play areas.... Enough already as for the whiffle ball example, it is exactly what I am saying, the playground, just like whiffle ball can be experienced anywhere...there is only one WDW. Shouldn't the expectation be more than playgrounds ? There are plenty of things to do at WDW to have memories that aren;t rides, let's not build any more monuments the almightly playground....they have there place, and it isn't in Fantasyland. <Little kids like playgrounds.< And they don't have enough of them already ( see above) at WDW ? yes, I do have playgrounds where we live, and many of them are better than that Pooh monstrosity....but they didn't build them on Michigan Avenue, in the middle of Wrigley Field or anywhere else where the property per square foot is astronomical and people go there for other than a stupid playground. And Trippy, the only reason Cirque / Virgin Megastore, and Rainforest are there are because they bring in money. No one travels to WDW specifically to see these places -- but also understand that while I have 2 of 3 herein Chicago, most visitors do not. Even people in Whatsit, Montana have playgrounds --- <<<<Then little children were brought to Walt for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But vbdad rebuked those who brought them. Walt said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the Kingdom of Magic belongs to such as these.">> Tis the season I guess ? I say bring the children and entertain them beyond the scope of a local freakin' playground -- otherwise in the future their parents may decide it's easier to walk to the park. Allelujah and Amen ! If Walt thought playgrounds were the answer- he would just have continued to bring his daughter there -- he decided he wanted more for her and other kids -- now some people seem intent on having that trend reverse back...I am at a loss.
Originally Posted By CTXRover Just as a fun fact concerning "playgrounds" in and around Disney's parks, Walt Disney himself did actually install a typical run-of-the-mill playground with a simplistic swing set and monkey bars seen in any back yard next to Disneyland park in its very early years. While it didn't last long before becoming part of the expansion of one of DL's lands, it looked to be a piece of junk in archive photos. In comparison, I'd say the Pooh playground is an E-ticket. But since TLS didn't incorporate a playground into the ongoing redesign of the pavilion (up to this point), I'm not really sure why this debate is coming up again. For anyone that has walked around the Bruce area in question, I imagine would agree that the area is not just simple play area for kids. It is loaded with fun-facts and tidbits for adults and kids alike....along with some nice photo-op areas for those who like that type of stuff.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip << I say bring the children and entertain them beyond the scope of a local freakin' playground -- otherwise in the future their parents may decide it's easier to walk to the park.>> I've never participated at the "Honey I Shrunk the Kids" playground at MGM or "The Boneyard" playground at the Animal Kingdom. Both of them seem quite popular though... they are almost always quite busy. Now if they started to put 3-4 of them in every park I might start complaining. But I can give them one in each park. Most of the attractions in both Fantasyland and ToonTown aren't that different from what you would find at a local amusement park. You certainly don't go to WDW just to see those attractions, but as part of the overall package I don't see a problem with them.
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden <<but we have a large one in the Studios passing as an attraction>> While it may not appeal to everyone, I'd imagine if you took a poll of kids between 2 and 8 they'd probably say that was a great attraction. I would think that for that group, the Honey or Boneyard playgrounds are as well themed and immersive than anything else found throughout the parks. I'm 6'5" it might take me getting down to their level to see just how powerful it is. <<I would rather have seen nothing in this case than the load of xxxxx they built in Fantasyland.>> But we had nothing there for years. I think the first place where people agree or disagree with this Pooh Playground is what do you think it replaced, 20K or nothingness? Honestly, I don't look at it replacing 20K. In all fairness to the Pooh bashers, I didn't mind the playground as long as it was well themed and well done, and if it was I could live with it. Only seeing it from the pictures posted here, I am disappointed. <<the playground, just like whiffle ball can be experienced anywhere...there is only one WDW.>> The point of the whiffle ball is that it was the time and place that made the experience worthwhile. Not just the usual backyard game. Playgrounds are fun. A 3yo doesn't need to go to WDW to have fun at one. But that experience resonates with them because it's not just some local playground. Look at the resort pools. I have read on several discussion boards and from others personally that have said how their kids loved the resort pools the most. Why is that when WDW has all these other wonderful experiences? It's just a pool, big hole in the ground filled with water. But they are more than just your average backyard or local pool. Add to that the fun of being on vacation with the people you love and that pool becomes something more. <<Shouldn't the expectation be more than playgrounds?>> The expectation should be more than everything. We should expect more than just dark rides, expect more than just thrill rides, more than just character meals, and even playgrounds. What I think is wonderful about WDW is that there are attractions and experiences for everyone. Those same attractions can enter, leave, and come back into our consciousness as the years go by. On my first trip I loved Dumbo. I got to a certain age and then didn't give Dumbo a second thought for years. Now I look forward to riding it with my kids. When they reach a certain age, I might travel to WDW many times and never get in line for it. Who knows, if I'm like my father at his age, the only thing I might care about is being able to take my grandkids on Dumbo, and if I get to do anything else, it's icing on the cake.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Both of them seem quite popular though... they are almost always quite busy. < the bathrooms are quite busy also, but I wouldn't consider tham an attraction either. <Now if they started to put 3-4 of them in every park I might start complaining. But I can give them one in each park. < How many do we have now in MK ? Let me count: Pooh / Donald's Boat / Tom Sawyer island -- by my math that makes 3, and it was the 3rd one that pushed me over the edge.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <But we had nothing there for years. I think the first place where people agree or disagree with this Pooh Playground is what do you think it replaced, 20K or nothingness? Honestly, I don't look at it replacing 20K. < but just by definition and the passing of 12 years-- it is a 'replacement' - there is nothing else there and nothing else even rumored to be planned for there. In my book that is a replacement, and personally I liked the hill and trees and flowers more than the less than half hearted effort that went in there. The pools are on the hotel sites, and many times they are either a break from the heat mid day ( June-July ) - or a diversion after the parks are closed. I have no problem with them because they are not taking up space in a finite area that is meant to hold attractions. A playground for every hotel -- sure, no problem with me either. But to use the limited amount of space within the confines of MK or any of the other parks is a waste of space , again in my opinion.
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden OK I shouldn't have been so harsh to the trees, hills, and flowers that popped up after 20K. They are "something". BTW, I hope my Scott rep doesn't read my last post and decide to mix my scheduled winterizing fertilization with crabgrass seed. I appreciate your opinion and on some level agree with you vbdad. To me, most of the play areas are well done and add to the overall experience. Not for everyone, but for a good number of guests. Unfortunately, it looks like the Pooh version stinks.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 It stinks as well as became the 3rd playground in MK-- just so unnecessary. As for the trees and flowers, they at least gaveme some hope that one day the area would be treated better, but with the playground up, my feeling is that date in the calendar just got moved out -- maybe another 12 years.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN I heard a rumor... or the seacabs ride expanding into the former theater areas... Anyones knows about this??
Originally Posted By irishfan ^^ Yeah, those rumours have been around for a while now. It's rumoured to be unveiled sometime mid to late next year....if reports are to believed.
Originally Posted By Disneybrad "a rumor... ride expanding into the former theater areas... Anyones knows about this??" We arent supposed to talk about it, or abmit it is happenig. Wink Wink
Originally Posted By danyoung >but just by definition and the passing of 12 years-- it is a 'replacement'...< I can sympathize with your dislike of this new, somewhat lame area. But this is the one point in your argument I just can't get past. If they tear down a house, leave the land flat and unused for 12 years, and then build a 7/11, can you say that they tore down the house to build a 7/11? There is so much time intervening that there is just no way to tie them together. In the same way, yes, they let 20K die, and 12 years later they did something with the space. But no, in my opinion they did not replace 20K with a playground. They just don't have anything to do with each other. Not a big deal, just semantics - one of my favorite subjects.
