Originally Posted By Mr X I have to disagree with a lot of your criticism about Epcot. I love the place. And while I see your point about having a bit of a confused identity, its my favorite park and we always spend the most time there. I love the fact that there are things to learn, places to visit that I may never have a chance to actually go to, people from those places to talk to and a vision of a utopian sort of future. Not to say that there aren't some problems but I feel like Epcot still embodies Walt's vision for a family park better than any other Disney Park I've visited. ~Beth Will you marry me?
Originally Posted By Mr X Gotta love a chick who shares the same vibe right? We're always BFF's though. Even if you never wanna marry me.
Originally Posted By Mr X By the way, IPB, I gotta tell you I was at Disney the other day and...well...I bought a churro (in YOUR memory only). It was okay. Kinda surgery though. The popcorn line was too long.
Originally Posted By ExplosionZ Since no one seems to be standing up for the DVC, I will. Greg, your point about the hyper marketing is well taken but I also have to say that if it were not for that, I may not be a member today. It took me about 20 booths before I finally gave in and asked about the "best kept secret". Now I do not know how I would live without it. Regarding your criticism about the paying up front. I do not believe that Disney would ever allow their properties to deteriorate, they are Disney. Even if you pay the bulk of your costs up front, there are still annual dues that facilitate the properties upkeep. As far as allowing people to think they "own" a piece of Disney, it is genius! When people ask me about my Disney trip, I can proudly say that I own my condo (OK a share of it). This pride also encourages me to visit more frequently that I might otherwise. Yes, we could use our points to go other places but there is a draw about going "home" to our DVC that makes us want to be there even more. DVC is a great system and is not only bringing great joy to my family but is saving us lots of money over the years.
Originally Posted By Tiggirl BFF's dude, totally! ;o) LOL! And I'm glad to hear about the Churro. That is one thing that Disney got right for sure. ;o) But I never get them anymore except for at the CM Holidy Party when they're on sale. Otherwise they are too expensive. That it one thing Disney did wrong. (See, its all on topic!) I'm telling you though, if I ever make it to Japan I'm trying some of those flavored popcorn options. They sound like they might hide the "cardboard" flavor pretty well. ;o) ~Beth
Originally Posted By fkurucz I don't agree that DVC "hopes" that those who pre-purchased their rooms won't show up. While its true that they already have the room money, if guests don't show up they won't spend money at the Parks, DtD, water parks, etc. If anything, I think DVC guarantees that these people will show up, even whe the economy is down.
Originally Posted By The Goddess Mara I'm a DVC member. We go to Disney twice a year, east coast or west, and haven't paid for a hotel room in years. I, too, dislike the dumb DVC kiosks everywhere. But the Disney Vacation Club itself is a great thing if you go often. As far as Epcot, it has nothing to do with Walt's vision, however it's the best second gate in the world (better than DisneySea only because there is a lot more to do). Criticizing it when you've never been there is the height of absurdity.
Originally Posted By Doobie <<< As far as Epcot, it has nothing to do with Walt's vision, however it's the best second gate in the world (better than DisneySea only because there is a lot more to do). Criticizing it when you've never been there is the height of absurdity. >>> If you're referring to the author, he's been there. Is there something in the article to indicate he has not? Doobie.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I have to disagree with a lot of your criticism about Epcot. I love the place. And while I see your point about having a bit of a confused identity, its my favorite park and we always spend the most time there. I love the fact that there are things to learn, places to visit that I may never have a chance to actually go to, people from those places to talk to and a vision of a utopian sort of future. Not to say that there aren't some problems but I feel like Epcot still embodies Walt's vision for a family park better than any other Disney Park I've visited.<< I completely agree. In fact, having just visited it for the first time last month, I think it may indeed be my favorite Disney park, even ahead of Disneyland.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Greg, your point about the hyper marketing is well taken but I also have to say that if it were not for that, I may not be a member today.<< The idea that it is "Disney's Best Kept Secret" kills me. There were billboards for DVC everywhere, plus it was harder to find a popcorn booth than one for DVC. It's way, way too much.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 EPCOT had a better vibe when it opened I think, but it's still probably my favorite WDW park, though certainly trailing DL for me. Sure it has its problems (I'd add to that list: very few rides in WS, which with its large physical size and arrangement around the lagoon makes hopping back and forth between WS and FW difficult, thus usually leading to long steady hours of shopping and eating in WS, with not enough rides to provide variety) but it also has its high points. And I'm really glad they finally took that freakin' wand down.
Originally Posted By F-Ticket When I was a little boy my parents went to NYC to attend the 64 Worlds Fair. They said I was too young but one day they would take my sister and myself to such an event. In 1980 I moved to NYC and many times visited Flushing Meadow Park where many icons of the 64 fair sit rotting away. When EPCOT opened my parents asked if I would like to join them on a trip to Orlando. Dad repeatedly said EPCOT was a lot like a worlds fair but this one is better. I was amazed by everything and thought it was the theme park of the future. Many years latter I landed a role in Hoidays Around the World which is still preformed at Epcot during Christmas. Every time I went on stage I would see Spaceship Earth in the backgroud and would get goose bumps. "I can't believe this is my office" I would say to myself. I know it would have been a different park if Walt had lived longer but part of his dream came to furition. To sum it up EPCOT is my favorite park in WDW, with or without the wand!
Originally Posted By Moon Waffle I think the first point hits home the hardest: Pirates and Mansion are THE two classic, signature attractions and nothing like them has been built since. And you can't point to money, especially if Radiator Springs Racers is truly going to be a $300 million attraction. The point, I believe, is that the major e-tickets since are all very fast paced. Those are fun, but there is something even more satisfying about a ride that doesn't have to speed through every scene - something where you know you're going to have time to relax and take in the surroundings. Why another slow paced, family friendly, massive e-ticket hasn't been built since the 60's is beyond me.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Why another slow paced, family friendly, massive e-ticket hasn't been built since the 60's is beyond me.> Well, arguably many of the original FW attractions were that (though the "edutainment" aspect of them may have made them seem like something else); the GMR in MGM, though I never thought it was all that good, was that; and Splash Mountain except for a few seconds is that too, arguably. Still, it is somewhat disconcerting that POC and HM are pretty much still considered the all-time masterpieces that haven't been topped.
Originally Posted By jedited There is SO MUCH to disagree with this article, but I will focus on two. First, branding. I agree with an earlier post, that this is an important thing. And not only that, but EVERY company does this. I worked for a company that was a wholesaler with the intials IM and EVERYTHING that the company did was IM something (IMpulse, IMpact, etc). Second, Disney characters. This REALLY gets under my skin. I AM SICK AND TIRED of people PRETENDING that Disneyland was anything but a way to promote Disney characters. Saying that "only 20% of Disneyland" was devoted to Disney characters is A LIE! NOTHING short of A LIE! Frontierland was devoted almost entirely to Disney characters (Davy Crockett, True Life Adventures, etc), Tomorrowland had Disney characters (a 20,000 leagues attraction, a movie exhibit first), Main Street had Disney characters (roaming characters, Disney themed parades and the Mickey Mouse Club in the opera house and a Babes in Toyland exhibt before that) and Adventureland was an extension of the True Life Adventure series. Yes, in the future, Disney did SOME non character based attractions (Pirates, Mansion, Small World, Lincoln, etc) BUT a number of the more famous ones were bought and paid for by outside companies for the 1964 World's Fair. DFs might not like Disney character based attractions, but EVERYONE else does. No little kid says, "Mommy, mommy can we go to Disneyland and go on the Haunted Mansion?" NO, they say, "Mommy, mommy can we go to Disneyland and see Mickey Mouse and ride on the Monsters Inc attraction (or insert your kids favorite character here)?" That is ONE of the failures of DCA. Everyone went there to see the characters and they weren't any. And that is why almost everything added since opening is CHARACTER based. Let's give the whole "Disneyland is some imaginery place that exists only in my mind and is above the whole character branding thing" a rest already. It was like that in Walt's day, it's like that today and it will ALWAYS be like that. Disney was, is and will always be a BUSINESS that exists to MAKE MONEY!
Originally Posted By gmaletic Actually, Great Movie Ride is a very good point...I would say that it -is- in the vein of a ride like Haunted Mansion and Pirates. (That it's not very good is a separate issue.) So, there is one ride that ties into that model. Still, I think the basic point stands: when your "best" rides are from 40 years ago, something is wrong.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>"Mommy, mommy can we go to Disneyland and go on the Haunted Mansion?" <<< I am very proud to say mine do. To them DL is about Hm, PotC, Star Tours, Autopia, the Teacups and ok, Buzz. But to them it is the attractions and not the characters they like (though we enjoy those, they are tertiary to our experience). I am very proud of my kids. And if you don't believe me, I think I have about 56 witnesses on these boards.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Also agreed. After DL, Epcot is the greatest park in the Disney Empire (it is a very close run thing in my mind).
