Originally Posted By leemac <<The big question then becomes, is there anything being considered for DAK or will it remain strictly a daytime Park? >> DAK was designed to be a full day park but without a nighttime spectacular. I don't see that changing in the near future. Animals plus Nighttime shows just don't add up. It creatively limits what you can do and whether it will find an audience.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> DAK was designed to be a full day park but without a nighttime spectacular. I don't see that changing in the near future. Animals plus Nighttime shows just don't add up. It creatively limits what you can do and whether it will find an audience. << That's what I was afraid you would say. I just don't see how DAK can further develope without something special to hold the guest there after the sun goes down. I guess they already know that though.
Originally Posted By MPierce That's why the concept of Beastly Kingdom would have worked so well. It would also have been a great counter punch to the Potter kid. Yes I know LeeMac, that's been dead, and buried for a long time too.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>That one is dead than the proverbial Dodo - visually it was a stunning show but it was never going to work. Ops and Show Tech would have had nightmares.<<< that's a crying shame, Leemac...Really. I don't see how it wouldn't have worked. If ToN could work, why not this?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Animals plus Nighttime shows just don't add up. It creatively limits what you can do and whether it will find an audience.<<< See WoC waving from the left coast...LOL. A different. rethemed, and Nature inspired WoC....
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 Sorry Leo, no trip report. I'd be too depressed if no one read it. Hopefully Fox and the Hound solved your problem.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<DAK is a park that is meant to be taken in slowly. The safari ride, the nature walks, the amazing shows, and all the little details that are there in the design and theming can't be dehydrated into a small pill and swallowed in a single day. It's also a park where you can do the same thing throughout the day and have it turn out completely different each time. However, it was while visiting this street party that I realized just how "tense" the guests are in this park. Perhaps "tense" isn't the right word, but many sure seem "on a mission" to say the least. Now as I think back on my day there, I begin to understand some of the behaviors I observed. >> Great post/thoughts/observations. I think 'tense' is a great term to describe many WDW visitors. Period. There's so much to see and do (allegedly ...ok, there is ... sorta) that people do go all commando (which really starts to stink with 400-pounders in FLA summers and oh... different meaning ... sorry, Spirit!) and don't often stop to smell the roses or take in the details. And DAK is all about details. You don't 'ride' it like Space Mountain. And anyone who rushes thru say the Jungle Trek with one quick picture of Brandon and Brittany with a tiger behind them is really missing something. I've spent two hours on that one 'attraction', but most won't. Yet, the morons will spend two hours in line for Space Mountain 1975 that they've been on 43 times in their life, including three times already on their current magical WDW vacation. FWIW, the whole 'tense' traveler deal is definitely WDW-specific. People seem to always be having a better time at DL, DLP and HKDL. Could it be because there's less pressure with only 1-2 parks?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 WOW! I guess I should have turned the page and read posts 51-53 before my last. Oh well, great thoughts should be reinforced.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<No way!!! DAK is a two day park IMHO. I can spend about 2 hours in each walk through easily. The dumbing down of society just amazes me.>> Welcome to the USA of the 21st century, intellectuals need not enter. Please tell me that you got my last few emails, Dave. I'd hate to think they are sitting in an analyst's cubicle in Quantico! ~To the NSA: The Money Is Under The Rock~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> Sorry, I'm not buying that there was no possible way to make it work. << <<I would hate to be the one that attempted to choreograph a nighttime extravaganza for DAK. I could definetly see how it could be a total nightmare. I just don't understand why so much money was spent developing RoL, if it was destined to be scrapped.>> Well, it wasn't destined to be scrapped ... and challenges can certainly be met. RoL could have worked, with changes both to it and the park ... but I believe they were all overstated. Once Jay Rasulo got that burr in his saddle (that's Texas talk for Pierce) 'bout a special game reserve where rich folks with guns could come in and bag themselves a rhino or a lion (also for Pierce) if they paid $300 a day/night, the push was for that and keeping DAK open later was in direct contrast to the agenda of the head of P&R. That prevented RoL. As an aside though, Steve Davison creates amazing spectacles for Disney (I have truly enjoyed everything the man has worked on, even Luminaria). That said, it's almost like he is totally blind to real-world/ops factors when he designs his spectacles. That's why you have mass congestion in front of castles now, because you can't really see one of his pyro shows from anywhere in the parks. That's why WoC requires FastPasses and dinner packages (btw, been warned that Wine Country Trattoria has changed from quality stuff to mass produced crap off a special menu if you buy one ... damn, all I want is the freaking veggie lasagna, not some 'alleged' beef tenderloin!!!) Anyway, point being the dude is a creative genius, but not at all in tune with operational realities ... and this was the situation with RoL as well. But things could have worked out. JR and TDO didn't want them to. Just like they didn't want to keep DAK open past 7 p.m. even after announcing extended hours for Nightastic! ~Trying to keep 'em honest!~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The big question then becomes, is there anything being considered for DAK or will it remain strictly a daytime Park? >> <<DAK was designed to be a full day park but without a nighttime spectacular. I don't see that changing in the near future. Animals plus Nighttime shows just don't add up. It creatively limits what you can do and whether it will find an audience.>> Cop out. You may not be able to do pyro, but there are plenty of things that can be done at night. RoL would have shown that. Night entertainment doesn't always have to end with a bang. ~But Spirited Parties Always Do~
Originally Posted By leemac <<You may not be able to do pyro, but there are plenty of things that can be done at night. RoL would have shown that. Night entertainment doesn't always have to end with a bang.>> Pyro wasn't the issue - it was performers hanging and swinging from trees above guests' heads that was the operational nightmare. I just wasn't going to work. Those performers needed to be along the entire performance corridor and so you couldn't have added acrobatic reinforcements to EVERY tree. It was just plain unworkable. It isn't a cop out. So you would have been stuck with the lantern parade - pretty but unspectacular.
Originally Posted By leemac And just to be crystal clear - Rivers of Light was entirely independent of the premium niche park - one was not ditched to work on the other. Someone also asked why money was "wasted" on Rivers - you can't have 100% of your projects reach fruition and so once in a while you get a long way down the development road before the project is nixed for a multitude of reasons. Sometimes you can use that experience or R&D elsewhere - sometimes you can't. Same happened for DL's WoW parade before.
Originally Posted By leemac <<As an aside though, Steve Davison creates amazing spectacles for Disney (I have truly enjoyed everything the man has worked on, even Luminaria). That said, it's almost like he is totally blind to real-world/ops factors when he designs his spectacles.>> I vehemently disagree with you there Spirit. Steven is totally aware of logistical issues when developing his parades and spectacles. The operator is brought in early to the process and asked for advice. Both DLR and DCA Ops agreed that they could handle Remember.... and WoC - what else can he do? Steven is a creative director - he needs to stick to what he does best and consult for outside advice.
Originally Posted By leemac <<that's a crying shame, Leemac...Really. I don't see how it wouldn't have worked. If ToN could work, why not this?>> See my response above. I'm not sure what people thought Rivers of Light was but it wasn't Tapestry of Nations - it wasn't 100% parade. Tapestry had wide concrete walkways to work with - the performance corridor at DAK can handle nothing bigger than Jammin' Jungle.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>So you would have been stuck with the lantern parade - pretty but unspectacular.<<< >>>See my response above. I'm not sure what people thought Rivers of Light was but it wasn't Tapestry of Nations - it wasn't 100% parade. Tapestry had wide concrete walkways to work with - the performance corridor at DAK can handle nothing bigger than Jammin' Jungle.<<<< I think it would have been pretty great, even without the trees. People loved the "lantern" parade of EPCOT, why not in DAK? Also, it could have handled some sort of acrobatics, if they positioned them ON the parade route instead, perhaps.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Please tell me that you got my last few emails, Dave. I'd hate to think they are sitting in an analyst's cubicle in Quantico! << The F.B.I. already sent me a copy of them. I'm recommending that they extend their surveillence of you an additional 3 months.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Someone also asked why money was "wasted" on Rivers - you can't have 100% of your projects reach fruition and so once in a while you get a long way down the development road before the project is nixed for a multitude of reasons. Sometimes you can use that experience or R&D elsewhere - sometimes you can't. Same happened for DL's WoW parade before. << That would be me. It just seems that if acrobats dangling from trees above the audience was such an importatant part of the parade, somebody early on should have said this isn't going to work. The impression I was given was everythiong had been developed, and finalized, including the music,right before it was scrapped. I certainly understand that everything doesn't get developed, but this sounds like it should have been a completely dead end project before it even got started. The only way i could see that differently is if the acrobats were a last minute decision which makes no sense at all. Sorry, but I'm just not understanding the concept of how RoL was developed.
