Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< FIVE construction walls at once! I wonder if this is a record. >>> What about DL in the early 2000's? I seem to remember a period of time when it seemed like there were walls everywhere and that half the E-tickets were either under planned maintenance/refurb or broken unexpectedly.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Where did all those DCA cheerleaders of 2000-03 go to, anyway?" Well I'm still here.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Yes, but you don't count. You are rational and smart and polite, and you have supportable opinions about things. ;-) I guess I was reflecting on a person or two who were hardcore DCA fans here, and when the Buena Vista Street project was announced and sketches and models shown they harumphed "That's no big deal, Disney always does that sort of remakes to their existing parks". My point is that the Buena Vista Street project is totally unprecedented in Disney theme park history. Never has Disney gone in and completely rebuilt the main entrance and opening act to a park, creating a new theme and physical look to the entire thing. It's arguable that it's never been done in a Disney theme park, ever. I think maybe the Tomorrowland redo of 1966-67 would be about the most similar example, although that was also about expanding and adding new attractions there and didn't change the theme of "Tomorrow". The Fantasyland expansion in MK is also similar, although it's also more about expanding and replacing existing facilities with new attractions, sort of like the 1982 remake of Disneyland's Fantasyland. But to go in and bulldoze and rip off the facades of one land, and rebuild it as a totally different theme and time and place, I can't think of a time that's ever been done in a Disney theme park. And certainly never to something so mundane as a main entrance complex.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Here's a great article about the history of the entrance I found: <a href="http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_chief1/b/jim_hill/archive/2010/09/13/disney-california-adventure-s-original-entrance-complex-gets-ready-to-make-its-exit.aspx" target="_blank">http://jimhillmedia.com/editor...xit.aspx</a> Its amazing the amount of thought they put into it and it still ended up like what it did. Reading it now, I DO have a greater appreciation of the murals and the amount of effort that went into it. But the article does a great job of highlighting why SO MUCH of DCA ended up the way it did and what SD alluded to earlier: huge budget cuts and short cuts and now 9 years later, we get a brand new entrance at around $100 million because they were too cheap and shortsighted to do it right the FIRST time around. Even the other entrance proposals for DCA didnt sound all that great either, but they were still sounded a little better than what ended up there. The giant hubcap alone is just pathetic.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I totally agree with you Hans about Buena Vista Street. That project is the sleeper hit of the whole 1.2 Billion dollar process. >> TP2000 - this goes to the heart of a discussion on the "Question for Leemac" thread - is there a gulf between what the fans and regular guests want. I have major issues with dumping $125m+ on a new entrance to DCA at this stage. That cost is another E-Ticket. I believe that the new entrance won't attract a single new paying guest - only AP-ers curious to see the transformation. I don't have any issue with the entrance being changed down the line but I still can't fathom why they would divert significant funds to a new entrance complex that won't drive attendance in a park that still struggles for attraction count. The only advantage I can see to doing it now is that if the new attractions are blockbusters then trying to fix it then with be an operational nightmare (and probably not the smartest PR move) but I still think that money is better spent elsewhere for now.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Leemac, how much was the original entrance? I read somewhere it was around $35 million, correct?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Hi Constance, yeah just been a little busy basically. Hope you're good.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Leemac, how much was the original entrance? I read somewhere it was around $35 million, correct?>> A sum less than that paid for everything through to Sunshine Plaza. There was originally no show producer on the entrance sequence - Tim Delaney was cajoled into taking on the assignment whilst also seeing his budget cut for Paradise Pier (and still having to deliver nearly half the park's attraction quota). I'm amazed I still get so angry over how DCA came to be. I think I need to move on.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I have major issues with dumping $125m+ on a new entrance to DCA at this stage. That cost is another E-Ticket. I believe that the new entrance won't attract a single new paying guest - only AP-ers curious to see the transformation." Of course it won't, but it will surely attract return visitors and give the folks who are there a few more reasons to linger and stick around. Those are things that the current rather charmless entrance could never do. As a tourist I certainly can tell you that I'd be more willing to shell out my money for a compelling environment like Buena Vista Street looks to be than what's there now. Let's see how the public responds to it in 2012. I guarantee that we'll be hearing round of "that's more like it" from all sides. Wow, have the folks at Disney gotten so far away from a basic understanding of the business that its founder created that they are so dense as to not understand this basic concept?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <"Where did all those DCA cheerleaders of 2000-03 go to, anyway?"> Well, those of us like Hans and me (and others) who had a more nuanced view of the place (and were often erroneously CALLED "cheerleaders" by some of the more extreme bashers) are still here... And those who were unabashed fans? They were entitled to their opinions too. Many times davewasbaloo has said that his wife preferred DCA to DL and indeed to most Disney parks - and that's fine. We all know dave is a real Disney-parks fan, and I can't imagine his wife is radically different; she just enjoyed herself and saw things in there she responded to, and that's valid. I also appreciated some of the different stuff they tried to do in the early days that has kind of gotten lost, and only wish the whole park had been at the level of the best of it. It wasn't, and the entrance was among the least inspiring, so I'm glad to see it get re-done. But as much as I'm looking forward to CarsLand particularly, I do wish they'd devoted SOME of that makeover money to non-toon attractions. Maybe that's why I (and I'm guessing Hans) look forward to BVS. I wish they'd invested in a non-toon ATTRACTION (other than the red cars), but non-toon atmosphere will do in a pinch.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance Do you ever get the feeling that in 30 years from now, we'll all be posting from our rocking chairs on the front porch, STILL arguing about DCA?
Originally Posted By jaybee It is a hard thing to see that it's going to take so much to fix the entrance. But I think that pill has to be swallowed because they did such a poor job in the first place. Leemac, I don't think it's just local AP Disney geeks that want to see it revamped. I and many of my friends have talked and wondered what happened with that entrance and hoped some day it would get fixed. I live in NORCAL and visit only once a year. I'm in my late 40s and my kids are mid to late teens. I like Disney parks, but I'm no fanatic. Although I do check on the Disney boards to see how the construction is coming. The point is, I think you might be surprised who is actually paying attention to what is going on in DCA and where that entrance ranks in their level of care. I think they got it right for this phase.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The point is, I think you might be surprised who is actually paying attention to what is going on in DCA and where that entrance ranks in their level of care." Right. I think it's comical how Disney bends over backwards pandering to the fans with D23, merchandise programs, themed suites at the hotels, the theme park blog, APs and such and then says "well they're just a small niche, nobody else cares about our rich history and so we'll just throw whatever we want where ever we can and whenever we choose just because we can". Sometimes I want to cry for corporate America.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "I have major issues with dumping $125m+ on a new entrance to DCA at this stage. That cost is another E-Ticket. I believe that the new entrance won't attract a single new paying guest - only AP-ers curious to see the transformation." I'm not very excited about the new entrance. I'd much rather have a new ride for that money. Shoot, guests seem to love the giant letters, and we're losing that. Maybe the rest will be enough of an improvement, but I don't get the excitement over it.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I wouldn't say that I'm excited, but it's definitely something that needs to be done.
Originally Posted By avatarmickey115 Obviously an entrance to a park won't be a main attraction, but changing the overall look of a park greatly increases the return rate of guests. I'd rather go back to a park with deep theming and better scenery even if it had the same attractions... Buena Vista Street will add greatly to the overall presentation of the park. No, guests won't keep coming back just for the entrance, but they'll be thinking, "Wow, California Adventure has really cool scenery and theming. The entrance was done really well! I'm definitely coming back to this park!" So it's not like the actually entrance is what's going to bring people back, it's the fact that it makes the park look good, along with the rest of the other things that are getting facelifts. All of these things will increase guest satisfaction of theming and scenery. So in my opinion, Buenva Vista Street is pretty critical for the overall view of the park. An entrance should be really nice looking to make it seem like the park is high quality.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "So in my opinion, Buenva Vista Street is pretty critical for the overall view of the park. An entrance should be really nice looking to make it seem like the park is high quality." See, even teenagers, who people often write off as superficial and frivolous, know the difference and can appreciate the attention to detail.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance Avatar is special. He's not like your average teenager! I hope my son is as smart and responsible someday!
