Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Paris and Hong Kong are trickier cases to argue. When you are a minority partner (like TWDC is in both cases) then it is difficult to get exactly what you want. Paris was already up to its eyeballs in debt (most of it owned back to TWDC) and had little ability to raise any new capital. Hong Kong is the <biggest> disappointment - they pitched low and get exactly what they wanted. That resort should have been capable of bringing millions of tourists to Hong Kong.>> Yeah good point and why I'm a little harder on DCA vs the other two. This is my basic assessment of the three parks: DCA: SUCKS!! WDSP: BITES!! HKDL: BLOWS!! Now those are educated and well argued assessments . But I do give WDSP a little more wiggle room because its only there due to an agreement to build something or they lose their land and DLP was still struggling. No way anything major was going to be built. Still it was done TOO cheaply, but it is what it is. HKDL makes me more angry because they actually built the very first half day MK park in Disney history and for a new market no less and actually thought people wouldnt notice lol. C'mon, what were they smoking? You said it yourself, that park SHOULDVE been a hit out the gate. I dont imagine it to be like TDL and crazy attendance, but it shouldve had people foaming at the mouth to get into that park. But they cut back so much on it (and sooooo much, I actually saw one of the original concept arts for this thing dated 1997 and its actually WAS a full day park with all the trimmings). But screwed it up and now they have to contend with the Chinese government so I imagine it cant be easy. And now they want to build another one in the mainland. That will be fun to watch . But DCA, its allll completely on them. They own it 100%. There was no rush. They waited 40 years, what was another 10 at this point? DL was doing just fine in terms of profits so its not like they had a troubled first gate to contend with. They had all the time in the world to get it right and 100% on their own terms. There was no other government or company to negotiate with, only themselves with some help from Anaheim and this is what we got in the end. Pathetic!
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Your posts are too long to read. No offense.>> LOL, none taken. MOST posts of mine these days are usuall short now and I dont come here too often like the old days, so when they are long it only shows how passionate I get ;D. But yeah, I could shorten it a bit. Thats why I miss Jonvn sometimes (SOMETIMES ), that guy made posts so long sometimes that made minds look like a sentence .
Originally Posted By tashajilek Hey WD i read all of ypur post's!! "DCA: SUCKS!! WDSP: BITES!! HKDL: BLOWS!! Is this in the order from best to worst ? lol.
Originally Posted By avatarmickey115 Did anyone read my last post? It's two pages back...I really want to get people's opinions on this thought I've been having...
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Avatar, can you give me some photo examples of what it was supposed to look like? I don't ever recall seeing them. I will say that if DCA had been built like it's predecessor, Disney's America, it would have been quite impressive. <a href="http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/upload/disneys-america-overview-we.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb...w-we.jpg</a> Although greatly scaled back, you can see quite a few key elements in that concept that eventually made it to Anaheim.
Originally Posted By tashajilek "Would you have liked DCA to be what it was supposed to be in the first place? Not Westcot, but just the DCA that was supposed to have a billion more dollars invested in it. Would you rather have that? Or would you rather have what we will be getting in 2012? I know there aren't a lot of pictures of what DCA was supposed to look like, but I've seen a few. So what do you think?" Hmmm thats a tough one to say. I personally Love DCA now. I havent been to DCA earlier then 08 so i did have TOT and TSMM which are 2 of my all time favorite attractions. Would i want DCA to be what is was supposed to be? Maybe not because maybe what is was supposed to be was only somewhat better than DCA 2001? It's a good thing that DCA has had some failure or the park wouldnt be what it is now and the future. So to answer i would say 2012 lol.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Hey WD i read all of ypur post's!! "DCA: SUCKS!! WDSP: BITES!! HKDL: BLOWS!! Is this in the order from best to worst ? lol.>> Thanks for reading! And actually it wasnt best to worst, but if it was I would switch HKDL and WDSP around . I have not been to WDSP yet, ONLY because it just looks like it bites of course and I have not been back to Europe in ages. If I went back to Europe, I would go, but the park isnt a draw to make a special visit for like TDS is for Tokyo. So I try not to be TOO critical because I havent experienced it yet and Davewasbaloo keeps saying its better than it looks. Of course, he was a huge DCA fan from the beginning, so yeah ;D. HKDL is not a bad park per se, its just not much of a park either, thats the real issue there. They made it waaaay too small and put seven rides in it. The stuff there isnt bad, just not very exciting either with the exception of one or two things, which you can find at the other parks. Nothing original at all. And I always say this, but if you been to ANY MK park before, there is zero need to go to this one...zero. Go if you want to see Hong Kong or need to just say you seen it. But there isnt a single attraction there that is a draw if you go to any of the other parks, nothing and thats sad to me.
Originally Posted By tashajilek "if you been to ANY MK park before, there is zero need to go to this one...zero. Go if you want to see Hong Kong or need to just say you seen it. But there isnt a single attraction there that is a draw if you go to any of the other parks, nothing and thats sad to me." I was considering going in 2013, but if there will be major cutbacks than i might change my mind. I guess it would not be wise for me to take a trip for mainly visiting DLP either " I would go, but the park isnt a draw to make a special visit for like TDS is for Tokyo. So I try not to be TOO critical because I havent experienced it yet and Davewasbaloo keeps saying its better than it looks. Of course, he was a huge DCA fan from the beginning, so yeah ;D." OUCH lol.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Would you have liked DCA to be what it was supposed to be in the first place? Not Westcot, but just the DCA that was supposed to have a billion more dollars invested in it. Would you rather have that? Or would you rather have what we will be getting in 2012? I know there aren't a lot of pictures of what DCA was supposed to look like, but I've seen a few. So what do you think?>> I dont know too much about DCAs earlier plans. I know bits and pieces of what was cut from the 1.0 version like a nicer entrance, which I posted here about, Golden Dreams was suppose to be closer to American Adventure in Epcot and Paradise Pier was suppose to be nicer, but I dont know if there were suppose to be nicer rides there. I also heard Hollywood section was suppose to be based on the city and not the backlot idea the ended up doing that to save money on proper buildings instead of the ugly facades they ended up doing (and I HOPE they make those enclosed buildings in the future when they change the Hyperion). But actual rides, I dont know about anything actually. And considering the rides they DID build besides Soarin and Screamin was nothing special, I wouldnt hold my breath on anything like TLM or even TSM that came later either. So I still vote for 2012. I dont like the direction of the toons, but I DO like the classic elements it brings like real stories again, well thought out queues, fantasy and etc. The exectution for the original DCA even with a billion dollars wouldve made the park nicer, but the hip and now vibe just doesnt gel in a Disney park. I like Disney parks because they all have a mix of history, fantasy and the exotic, all that DCA 1.0 had nothing to begin with and I doubt a proper budget wouldve made that any better (and Golden Dreams talked about Calis history, but I like to see it actually play out in the parks and not just some 10 minute movie). The entire direction and execution was just wrong in my view. DCA 2.0 has greatly changed that direction immensely and this reason alone is why I'm more excited about it. Its NOT perfect, but its a hell of a lot better.
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Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I guess it would not be wise for me to take a trip for mainly visiting DLP either" Disneyland Paris is my favorite Magic Kingdom park bar none. It's absolutely stunning. The problem is that maintenance is sometimes painfully lacking, but other than that, the park is quite a spectacle to see. Clearly no expense was spared when that place was designed and built. Can't say that same for the sad little studio park across from it though. I've heard that it's better than it used to be since they've made some fairly significant changes in the past few years.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Thanks for the Blue Sky line WD. I'm wondering where they got the narrative from for the revamped areas, cause a couple of them are pure BS. "Paradise Pier - Themed to a Victorian turn-of-the-century seaside pier along a mythical coast of a California that never was." Yeah, no kidding. It's basically going to be a mashup featuring a faux Victorian theme that never existed at a California seaside pier with decidedly modern attractions like TSMM, a madmouse coaster, and the Little Mermaid. It'll be an improvement for sure, but that description is kind of ridiculous. "Cars Land - Themed to the sites one would have seen along historic Route 66 during its heyday in the 60's as California's gateway to/from the West" Unless there's something being introduced in Carsland that we don't know about, how is it that this new Carsland has anything to do with any specific California locale? The desert their constructing doesn't resemble any area of California at all. In the scheme of things none of this is really earth shattering, but it kind of bugs me when Disney attempts to make sense out of things that, well, don't. It's like they're aware of their reputation for trying to be authentic (Everest, EPCOT's WS pavilions, etc) and then try to pass off something like Carsland as being historically accurate. I'm hoping these descriptions of the four themed areas are conjecture from the blogger at that site. As someone at the link so smartly asked, how does Flik's fit into all of this?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Well to be fair Hans, I think its his interpretation of where they are headed with it, but it makes sense. They made it clear BVS takes place in the 20s/30s L.A. and HPB is changing its name to Hollywoodland to reflect this as well, especially with the trolly going through it, so thats no secret. I read somewhere they are slowly changing out GRR theme from the extreme sports thing that no one EVER caught on to to a 50's natures vibe when you see some of the new props of the ride. Its very subtle but you DO see the changes like old style props like canoes and phones from the pics I seen. There are rumors the challenge trail may get a rehaul to reflect the changes to. Of course if Soarin is considered part of GRR, you are definitely not hang gliding in the 50's . PP, again its suppose to be themed to an old style period, hence why the Maliboomer is now gone and they exchanged the music out from the contempoary to old timey piano music. And I guess about time they change out the old route 66 area for the new restaurant and revamp MM for Goofy Sky School it will become stronger. Carsland, I dont buy either actually, especially since its a land thats not even IN Cali lol. Its why I kind of wish they would change the name of the entire park so stuff like this and FFF wouldnt seem and feel so ridiculous since it has no strong identity to California. But I do appluad them of still trying to hang on to the California theme by making the other stuff stronger, even if its really a little silly to shoehorn stuff like that and frankly not even necessary anymore. No one cares what theme of DCA even is, just as long as WHATEVER it is, it makes sense. And this is DCA, they been shoehorning crap in this park for years now . At least now they are doing it in a more creative way. I think they are trying to make it a unified theme like TDS and DAK has and not so open like the MK parks. I was afraid thats where DCA was heading, just a hodge podge of everything under a superficial theme that only touches certain areas of the park. But I'm happy they are trying. They got a billion and a half dollars to play with, they can make it work . So its mainly conjecture on his part and he said himself obviously it doesnt all fit, but it does seem like thats what they are doing. And thats why I said I WISH they had gone with this idea from day one and not day 2100. The discrepencies they have now obviously wouldnt exist if they built the park with this direction from the ground up. But I still like the idea despite the problems.
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Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<I was considering going in 2013, but if there will be major cutbacks than i might change my mind. I guess it would not be wise for me to take a trip for mainly visiting DLP either >> I think I remember talking to you about this before. No you should definitely still go (see people, I'm not completely evil ). There WILL be new stuff then and it looks pretty good. I read briefly just today there is suppose to be a budget cut on Mystic Manor, but no one even knows what that is or how steep. And it still will probably be the best thing in that park regardless. But 2013 is a lont time away, so you got plenty of time to decide and see how things end up. And I always stress this, but its WORTH just going to Hong Kong alone. So even if you think the parks sucks, you will probably love Hong Kong regardless. I just tell people make Hong Kong your main priority and the park second and you will probably have a better time anyway. If you are only going just for the park, well, good luck . And I would say go to DLPR IF you never been to DLP. THATS worth going to. I love DLP, its just hard to justify going again because its just so expensive to go there for me vs the other parks and I dont really like going to Paris in general. But yeah, DLP is definitely worth seeing in its own right as I been before WDSP even opened. But WDSP alone doesnt drive me to come back and nothing big in DLP has opened since I been there last, but I am thinking to try and see it next year sometime.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "And this is DCA, they been shoehorning crap in this park for years now..." And they haven't been shoehorning in stuff at DL? Let's be honest here. DCA is not alone in this regard. "Dammit, that was suppose to be shorter Hans, but I just kept adding and adding and adding, so sorry" LOL.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney I didnt say DL didnt shoehorn anything. I mean, uh, Nemo . But they been shoehorning stuff in DCA its very first year of operation when they threw in MSEP at the last minute out of desperation and FFF in its second. Its been a hodgepodge mess since 2002 frankly. You look up shoehorn in the dictionary, you see a picture of TOT in a so-called studio backlot. Thats why I'm glad they are trying harder to unify it all IF thats what they are doing.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Oh for sure. No question that DLR management didn't know how to handle the mess they had on their hands, but there's no need to point out shoehorning at DCA when shoehorning (I love saying/typing that word) is what Disney Parks seems to do at all their properties these days.
