Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance I would have put shoehorning in the Hanism book, if I hadn't of sold out to Disney.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Oh for sure. No question that DLR management didn't know how to handle the mess they had on their hands, but there's no need to point out shoehorning at DCA when shoehorning (I love saying/typing that word) is what Disney Parks seems to do at all their properties these days.>> Alright, thats fine, but I only mentioned it because TECHNICALLY Hans, you mentioned it first. In your post, you complained how the different time periods didnt make sense because it mismashes with some of the more contempoary/non-Cali based rides. I was only responding to your point and saying DCA has ALWAYS had this problem, so its not a big deal at this point. But yes, all parks has dealt with this to a degree. Just some worse than others.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Well no, what I said was it bothers me when Disney attempts to reason the existence of something totally out of place. I never specifically suggested that this was something unique to DCA. You're the one who insinuated that when you said, "hey been shoehorning crap in this park for years now", and then claimed that nobody cares what DCA's theme is anyway. We're obviously on two different wave lengths here.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Okay, its starting to feel like semantics now, but I just meant talking about shoehorning in general. I never bought it up about DCA or any park. You SPECIFICALLY said you didnt buy the time period thing and I was responding DIRECTLY about it. If we were talking about DL and you said it, I wouldve said the same thing. You werent talking about DL, you were talking about this park. And yeah, DCA is the O.J. Simpson of shoehorning stuff in! DCA and TDS has been opened the same length of time and so far every addition TDS has built has stuck to its theme very consistently. I cant think of one that sticks out like a sore thumb. If someone can, PLEASE correct me, but off the top of my head not one...yet . I can think of a dozen in DCA alone and the park is not even 10 years old. Majority of them are Pixar attractions for one . Some can argue it fits, but really doesnt to me. But oddly I was trying to defend the park by saying this lol. And honestly, no, no one really cares about DCAs theme. I dont mean they dont care if DCA has NO theme, of course they do. Many of us hear argue the park sucks because they seem to forget they even HAVE a theme most of the time. But what I mean is they dont care if DCA CHANGED its theme to something else, thats all. The Cali theme has NEVER been any strong pull to anyone except geniuses that came up with it. Everyyone else either likes it or hate it, but if it was pulled tomorrow I doubt any side would lose much sleep over it. They said tomorrow they decided to rename it Disney America and made the additions to reflect that, how many people will whine over it? I doubt many and in fact probably think that theme makes better sense anyway. End of the day, most people just want a unifying theme that brings the park together, regardless what it is. Thats all I'm saying. Now tell those same people DL wants to replace NOS for San Francisco and watch the internet blow up .
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt It's an expression that refers to when your shoes are too tight and you have to use a shoehorn to put them on. In this case we're talking about themes and stories that are out of place in the parks. For instance Nemo in Tomorrowland or the Disney's Little Mermaid on a Victorian seaside pier. Here's a picture of a shoehorn for ya: <a href="http://www.info.gov.hk/elderly/images/daily_living/shoehorn.JPG" target="_blank">http://www.info.gov.hk/elderly...horn.JPG</a> Do people even still use them?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Hans I really wasnt trying to start a fight, I swear. I think this being the internet, there was just some miscommunication on both sides.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance I saw commercial at work advertising a new and improved shoehorn on a long stick, so you don't need to sit down to use it. Gilbert Gotfried is the voice on the commercial talking up the product.
Originally Posted By tashajilek "Do people even still use them? " Yes old people do, i have seen it lol.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "The thing is if nobody complained about what DCA was nothing would have been done." It wasn't complaints that led to the investment. It was lack of performance. As far as shoehorning goes, Walt wasn't exactly innocent. The Matterhorn was shoehorned into Tomorrowland. As was the Autopia and subs.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Hans I really wasnt trying to start a fight" Of course you weren't and nor was I. It was a misunderstanding.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The Matterhorn was shoehorned into Tomorrowland." Good point.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Matterhorn technically is a part of FL." It is, but it has an odd placement. The Monorail, which wraps around is supposed to be part of Tomorrowland.
Originally Posted By tashajilek Well it is a odd placement, but if you think about it being a part of FL the theming makes more sense. Obviously Tomorrowland isnt really true to it's name, more like whateverland, but it still has some good attractions.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>As far as shoehorning goes, Walt wasn't exactly innocent. The Matterhorn was shoehorned into Tomorrowland. As was the Autopia and subs.<< Autopia "shoehorned?" It was part of the place when it opened. The idea was to experience the super highways of TOMORROW. The subs were a great addition-- replacing the rather sad little Phantom Boats. Even the PBs were of tomorrow, though, since they were made of a revolutionary new material, fibreglas. Matterhorn? A mountain fits in most anywhere-- unless you want to believe there will be no mountains "tomorrow." It was originally considered a part of TL, and is now considered part of FL. >>It's basically going to be a mashup featuring a faux Victorian theme that never existed at a California seaside pier...<< Sigh. How many times have I been over this? California did not spring fully formed into existence sometime shortly after the first sound movies were produced. The state has a long and rich history, including some pretty amazing Victorian style seaside piers and amusement parks. None of them exist in anything approaching their original form any more, but they did. Santa Monica: <a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HXhqoz3SfHk/SbkXmf1vjbI/AAAAAAAAEOw/_eSRg9NNXwI/s400/pier1925.jpeg" target="_blank">http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HXhq...925.jpeg</a> <a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AbImehj4LiA/S6PNlevRP9I/AAAAAAAAJGw/Z8X0dvNwYZw/s400/sm_pier_1920s.jpg" target="_blank">http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AbIm...920s.jpg</a> Venice: <a href="http://pix.epodunk.com/CA/ca_venice03.jpg" target="_blank">http://pix.epodunk.com/CA/ca_v...ce03.jpg</a> <a href="http://www.localbeachhotels.com/UserFiles/Venice%20Pier%20and%20Navy%20Beach.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.localbeachhotels.co...each.jpg</a> Balboa: <a href="http://store.nhnm.org/catalog/BalboaFunZone.jpg" target="_blank">http://store.nhnm.org/catalog/...Zone.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "A mountain fits in most anywhere-- unless you want to believe there will be no mountains "tomorrow."" A bobsled run with an encounter with the abominable snowman is futuristic? No one is disputing the fact that pleasure piers existed in California, however none of the architectural styles in the links is Victorian.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance Yeah, I read that the Matterhorn was originally considered part of TL, then they moved it's "location" which just means they started saying it's part of FL. Geez, I read a lot about Disney. I'm a bigger dork than even I claim to be. And I just got soooooooooooooo homesick for Disney thinking about that little area around the Matterhorn!
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>No one is disputing the fact that pleasure piers existed in California, however none of the architectural styles in the links is Victorian.<< "Victorian" is a very broad term, covering a number of stylistic revivals over a long period of time. Victoria reigned from 1837 to 1901. With the so-called "fashion lag," Victorian gave way to Edwardian just before World War I. Among the distinct styles of Victorian we find Renaissance Revival, Carpenter Gothic, Italianate, Japonisme, Greek Revival, Stick Style, Second Empire, Shingle Style, Romanesque and Queen Anne. Oh-- and the catch-all terms Eclectic and Vernacular can be used when buildings don't fall into a neat category. The various links I provided above are, indeed, each representative of a certain type of Victorian style. There were plenty of "Victorian" style piers in California. None were "pure," but the idea of Paradise Pier is to create a fantasy Victorian style pier that never specifically existed. It's like Main Street USA, which is not (by any stretch of the imagination) an exact recreation of any American small town at the turn of the 19th century. Here's downtown Marceline from Walt's day: <a href="http://disney.go.com/disneyatoz/familymuseum/global/images/178-322.jpg" target="_blank">http://disney.go.com/disneyato...-322.jpg</a> Main Street USA? Not really. But Main Street is certainly an "idealized version" of this.
