Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<If you disagree and think your behavior's acceptable, there's really nothing left for me to say.>> I guess there is nothing left for you to say. Pull up any one of a 100 Mormon threads and you will see NASTY. Have a nice day.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Back in high school I thought I might be bipartisan...but...after a little experimentation I realized I was very much not. The fact that World Events has gone from Bush Bashing to Obama Praising is of know real surprise. Frankly, I hope Obama gives me a reason to praise him too. I can only assume that if Obama does well my family will also do well.< skipper - don't recall you venturing into these waters too often -- usually in WDW threads.... although I surely understand why. I agree with the statement that most likely if Obama does well so will my family -- some depends on where he draws the tax line $250K $200k $150K less ? -- but overall in other topics, if he does well in foreign relations, we all win etc. - agreed.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The last few months you've>> Yes, I've become a bit more combative. I found out what it was like on the "other side" at a far-right dominated board. By watching my more liberal views get trashed and mocked, I realized what it was like to be a conservative on these boards. They, like you, thought they were being perfectly reasonable and just could not understand why I would take offense at what they said (I mean after all, Obama was BORN a Muslim, why did I think it was so terrible for them to call him one?) It is always a little different when it is YOUR ox that is being gored. Then I came back to these boards at the height of the Mormon bashing, and realized that I was viewing the flip side of what I saw on the far-right board. A widespread notion of what the "correct" view is, and outright mocking of anyone who doesn't subscribe to that view. So I decided to get a little feisty. Not because I disagree with the dominant viewpoint here, because I don't. But I hate to see any conservative viewpoint disdainfully dismissed. You always have some reason or another to dislike the poster's style. You hate Darkbeer because he cuts & pastes. You hate DouglasDubh because he will argue the construct of an argument at times rather than the issue. You hate Josh because he believes accepting the viewpoints of his religion is an acceptible thing to do. You hated Beaumandy becaue he was, well, because he was Beaumandy. There were many other conservatives here too, but they've all been run off. So I try to a certain extent represent the voice of those driven away. Even though I agree with the predominant point of view here, I HATE how people who believe otherwise are treated. So at times I go over the edge. At times I bear a passing resemblance to Don Quixote. But it isn't easy posting here when you try to go against the tide. But I really go no further than the rest of you do. It just seems that way to you since I am disagreeing. and worst of all, I'm not disagreeing with your point of view, I am disagreeing with how you treat others. And you really can't stand that. Oh well.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>The fact that World Events has gone from Bush Bashing to Obama Praising is of know real surprise. Frankly, I hope Obama gives me a reason to praise him too.<< I only know of one poster who has been effusive in his praise of Obama. The rest seems to be just people frantically arguing over who is being the most impolite or unfair. Which isn't exactly a World Event. Of course, I've recently made it a point to abandon topics that get stuck in the big muddy, so maybe I haven't seen this Obama praise of which you speak. Come to think of it, why am I here?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Pull up any one of a 100 Mormon threads and you will see NASTY.> I have to get ecdc's back a little bit here. I saw some Mormon bashing in those threads, but not from him. In fact, I learned as much about Mormon history (interesting stuff!) from him as I did from UtahJosh, maybe more. I thought ecdc was never less than respectful - some fondness for certain aspects of his past even came through - even if he made clear that he no longer believed in it, or (rightly) insisted that present-day Mormons cop to things like their undeniably racist policies of the past and asked if maybe, just maybe, there were parallels in present-day policies. That's not bashing; it's "tough love" or what my denomination often calls "challenging."
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Pull up any one of a 100 Mormon threads and you will see NASTY. I have to get ecdc's back a little bit here. I saw some Mormon bashing in those threads, but not from him.>> Nowhere did I indicate that I thought ecdc's posts in the Mormon threads were nasty. To tell you the truth, I don't keep that close of track of who posts what. I just know that the overall tone of those threads was extremely nasty. That was my point... not that ecdc individually was nasty. I really was trying to keep him out of it. I don't exactly know why ecdc feels so put-upon. There are only two people here that I seem to have a running disagreement with (and they with me) and ecdc is not one of those people.
Originally Posted By ecdc Thanks Dabob2. That means a lot right now. For whatever reason, I'm struggling with the tone in WE's the last few days. I'm sure I've contributed to it, and I am sorry to anyone I've frustrated or upset. I'm really not into "drama," so I'm pretty much over these introspective conversations about what WE's is and what it should be. It is what it is; it's changed from what it was and it'll change again. By and large it's comprised of interesting, intelligent people who are opinionated and passionate about their opinions. Personally, I see that as a good thing, with a little bit of frustration thrown in from time to time. Others see it as "nastiness"; still others stay away altogether. Whatever floats your boat.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I gotta admit I wouldn't go there either...I read a few posts on the Branson boards that someone listed a link for a while back -- they were extremely biased also ( not what I want) and quite frankly they were somewhat frightening.*** That's one thing I really like about LP. There have been plenty of contentious arguments, sure, but I rarely if ever get the impression that anyone on here (yup, even the right wingers) are really malicious. Not so elsewhere.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I don't exactly know why ecdc feels so put-upon. There are only two people here that I seem to have a running disagreement with (and they with me) and ecdc is not one of those people.<< Because the new aggressive tone of your posts has now thrice been directed at me in very personal ways. That'd make someone feel "put upon." If it came from Beau, or Douglas, or woody, I'd do what I always do and chuckle and shrug it off. But when someone you've respected in the past here does it, and in such an overt and aggressive way, it's a little surprising. Perhaps I'm just sensitive; if someone I respect attacks me, it makes me feel like I've done something wrong and ought to evaluate how I post and how I come across. Despite my passion for politics, I'm not one of these online people that shows up to argue, feelings and personalities be damned. Those things matter to me. I really want to know if I'm being an ass or hurting someone's feelings. Elementary schoolish as it may seem, I believe in the Golden Rule. So you've caught me off-guard a few times, and I'm at a loss as to why you feel a need to be so hostile. But, you insist you're not. That's why I said I really have nothing more to say. If you feel like calling me names or telling me I'm a kid who's not old enough to get it is a fantastic way to have a conversation, there's really nothing I can do about that. Seriously. But it certainly makes me think, "Oh, it really isn't me. It's him. I'll just ignore his personal attacks the way I've learned to ignore others." I said what I did about your posting style in a genuine (if heated) attempt at feedback. You chose to make it all about me, then later chose to make it a noble effort to defend the poor, picked on conservatives here. Again, that's fine. I really don't care. But I won't let it catch me off guard in the future. And with that, I really have no interest in discussing it further. The last word is yours. I'm needing a little break from WE's (for a variety of reasons).
Originally Posted By Mr X ***And with that, I really have no interest in discussing it further. The last word is yours. I'm needing a little break from WE's (for a variety of reasons).*** That sucks.
Originally Posted By gadzuux The 'mormon' threads were indeed heated. Part of that was because josh and his handful of supporters kept it going unnecessarily long. K2M talks about statements meant to goad opponents, and I think he's refering generally about the lefties, and maybe specifically about me. But in this situation, it was the other way around. Josh continued to post his unsupportable beliefs multiple times a day, prompting those of different beliefs to respond. And they did - it was like an avalanche coming down on him. Yet he stubbornly continued. It didn't have to be as long and heated as it turned out to be. But instead it was the continuing provocation on the part of the 'Yes on 8ers' that fanned the flames. I'm not trying to re-open the whole thorny discussion, and I'm not trying to assign blame to one side over the other - generally speaking. But since this particular instance has been used as a "go-to" example for the excesses of the liberals on the board, it seems only fair to provide some context.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Part of that was because josh and his handful of supporters kept it going unnecessarily long. << Takes two to tango. Actually several. There were quite a few people on both sides who JUST ... COULDN'T ... LET ... IT ... GO! No one was forcing you to respond to Josh, but you just couldn't help yourselves.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <The 'mormon' threads were indeed heated. Part of that was because josh and his handful of supporters kept it going unnecessarily long. > I disagree. I never intended to drag things out, but I always wanted to stand up for my beliefs.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Takes two to tango. > Agreed. I'm just as "guilty" as anyone else for ...dragging things out?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Nowhere did I indicate that I thought ecdc's posts in the Mormon threads were nasty. To tell you the truth, I don't keep that close of track of who posts what. I just know that the overall tone of those threads was extremely nasty. That was my point... not that ecdc individually was nasty. I really was trying to keep him out of it.> Okay... in #61, the first sentence was a direct response to ecdc, and then the second sentence was about the Mormon threads getting nasty. So I put the two together, but perhaps that wasn't your intent. It's hard to judge intent sometimes.
