Originally Posted By davewasbaloo That was your choice VBDAD. It is far better value to educate our children if we have contributions for all, otherwise education becomes a luxury for only the rich.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb Still, it's a sad state of affairs that Illinois is paying 11k per student but VBDAD still feels the quality of education is poor enough he needs to pay almost that for his own child to go to private school on top of his property taxes. One wonders where all that money is going. As for the original topic. I was looking at the menu and they want less than $30 for the fillet at lunch and over $40 for the same piece of cow at dinner. I loved the fillet when I had it 5 years ago, but not $42 worth. I guess I'll have it for lunch, if I can ever get in again.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 That was your choice VBDAD. It is far better value to educate our children if we have contributions for all, otherwise education becomes a luxury for only the rich. --- what part was my choice ? my property taxes ? or school choice. Tell me again it's a choice when my straight A older student got to college so ill prepared to do that level work it felt like i was back in school to be able to help her. They pass these darn kids and everyone has a great GPA to make sure they do not get a hit for no child left behind- they get 30-40% of their grade from doing homework- and they learn crap. And these are supposed to be good schools compared to the inner city. So NO, I do not feel I had a choice,and I certainly am not rich. I had to take out 2 loans to send my child to a HS that teaches things like grammar so that they can be successful in college - in the meantime the politicians pissed away my $11K in property taxes - so again NO , I did not have a choice. you see it as a choice, I saw it as a necessity to avoid my second getting out of collegewith a crappy GPA- then fight for a job.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Tell me again it's a choice when my straight A older student got to college so ill prepared to do that level work it felt like i was back in school to be able to help her. >>> This is a shock that *most* college students that go to good universities encounter, even coming from the best high schools. They may have been in the top 5 percentile of their high school and then struggle in college. Well guess what: in a good university, *every* other student was also in the top 5 percentile in high school. So, students that were *only* 95th percentile in high school go from an environment where they are ahead of 95% of their classmates to one where almost all of their classmates are ahead of them. <<< They pass these darn kids and everyone has a great GPA to make sure they do not get a hit for no child left behind- they get 30-40% of their grade from doing homework- and they learn crap. >>> It's funny you should mention that. Whose idea was No Child Left Behind? It was almost literally the very first thing that President Bush did when he took office in 2001. It's actually one of the few things that got done before they started talking about how to invade Iraq in Feb 2001, it was that important.
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt I fully understand VBDAD. We up & moved to get our children into a better school/less corrupt ($ wise) town. Millions of $$$ missing from the school budget & the politions just throw their hands in the air & say OOOPPPS!
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt Ok, back to Le Cellier. We had lunch there last trip. Don't remember the prices but, we were full all day! Ended our late night at EPCOT with French pastery!! Great day!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 It's funny you should mention that. Whose idea was No Child Left Behind? It was almost literally the very first thing that President Bush did when he took office in 2001. It's actually one of the few things that got done before they started talking about how to invade Iraq in Feb 2001, it was that important. ----- no child left behind is actually an excellent concept- it is the way it is administered and tracked down to the smallest possible % of different groups that makes it unachievable- so then what schools have resorted to is teaching to a common denominator - not too hard so little Susie gets a C and can't get into the school of her choice, etc.. the tell tale is thatfor instance- schools in my area- which btw touts their prowess - 50% of the student body has a GPA of 3.8 ot higher - Top 5% as you say - but the standardized test scores are more in the 65%-70% percentile of all students taking the test- many of whom are not college bound. The private school I am at they bust their chops- no weighting on grades- if you are in an honors class or AP class- the grade you get it the grade you get- not uplifted...an A starts at 93% not 90%. 70% is passing- not 60% - and the average ACT score of 28.6 is in the top 7% -- so the grades and test scores match. I moved her there after middle school when she had zero grammar- couldn't write a paper to save her soul - etc. and her friends at Catholioc middle schools here were years ahead of her in math - yet she was a 4.4 student on a 4.0 scale. It was quite the shock freshman year - but today she is prepared for college. So the $11K I pay to public schools here is pissed away making target admin numbers..I no longer deal with that . I want charter schools but the unions won't have that now will they. I grew up in the inner city where dropout rates are over 50% in high school- charter schools there have made great inroads where allowed- and they do not cherry pick the kids- it's a lotttery to get in. The teachers unions have run this country long enough- there are some great great teachers in the public schools also- but they work alongside some shclocks that no one can get rid of because of the unions.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I fully understand VBDAD. We up & moved to get our children into a better school/less corrupt ($ wise) town. Millions of $$$ missing from the school budget & the politions just throw their hands in the air & say OOOPPPS! --- we just built a $155M hiugh school that we did not need. School board and admin coerced people into thinking we were overcrowded- gave completely fale attendance numbers ( off by 2500 kids)- and people voted a $124M referendum in because they believe people working with the schools are in it for the kids. they 'borrowed' another $30M by refinancing exisaiting debt for another 20 years without telling the taxpayers because they wanted another school in a different part of the school district where the now former superintendent lived- plain and simple-
Originally Posted By vbdad55 also let's fqace facts , in the US higher education is already for the rich - and in some cases for the very poor. The rich can afford anything they want and when the average 4 year public college degree costs $130K and private schools $175K-$225K that is not for everyone already. If you are really really poor you can qualify for aid and a few of these kids get educations also ( not enough) -- but for the middle class- you make oo much to get aid, and yet you can't afford to pay for college on your own- or kids come out with $50K in debts day one- and no job
Originally Posted By Socrates I get the impression you're ready to give up on public education. Is that really true? Socrates "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Originally Posted By fkurucz "Tell me again it's a choice when my straight A older student got to college so ill prepared to do that level work it felt like i was back in school to be able to help her." FWIW, my kids graduated from our low budget public HS, with plenty of AP credits under their belts and are doing fine in college. I'm not saying that everyone who graduated from their HS was a potential Rhodes scholar, as plenty of kids chose to take the minimum requirements to graduate and won't be accpeted by any of the 5 state universities we have here, not that they were going to apply.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>The private school I am at they bust their chops- no weighting on grades- if you are in an honors class or AP class- the grade you get it the grade you get- not uplifted...an A starts at 93% not 90%. 70% is passing- not 60% - and the average ACT score of 28.6 is in the top 7% -- so the grades and test scores match. I moved her there after middle school when she had zero grammar- couldn't write a paper to save her soul - etc. and her friends at Catholioc middle schools here were years ahead of her in math - yet she was a 4.4 student on a 4.0 scale<< As some of you know, my kids attended Parrochial schools. The average test scores on the Iowas were way above average. This wasn't surprising, as our student body was composed of kids who came from upper middle class families and they on average had higher IQs than the kids in the public schools. No "problem kids" at our school, which made it easy to get higher performance from the kids. In hindsight, one thing that bothers me about our Parrochial school experience is that is was subsidized by the parish, meaning we didn't cover the full cost of funding the school with our tuition. That was covered by majority of Parishioners who were too poor to afford the school tuition. So in a parish of 2000 families, 1900 of them subsidized the 100 wealthiest families. (Note: I have heard that the subsidy has dropped substantially since my kids finished. Of course that means that it's even more out of reach for regular families.)
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I get the impression you're ready to give up on public education. Is that really true? ------------------ two centuries of virtually the same plan- I do think it's time to re-think yes.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 In hindsight, one thing that bothers me about our Parrochial school experience is that is was subsidized by the parish, meaning we didn't cover the full cost of funding the school with our tuition. That was covered by majority of Parishioners who were too poor to afford the school tuition. -------------- no parish affiliated for me in the high school- we and alumni foot the whole bill
Originally Posted By vbdad55 FWIW, my kids graduated from our low budget public HS, with plenty of AP credits under their belts and are doing fine in college. ------------- the problem for me is ours is not 'low budget' - as they far outspend the private schools per child...average teacher salary in my district over $70K and average admin $120K -- Super makes $450K and large 'staff' - I went to school in the 'inner city' in Chicago in the 60's and very early 70's- in the areas you see on history channel for the gangland series. And yet I can tell you I got a more well rounded education than my supposedly upscale suburban public school district now. We learned ALL the basics and we didn;t offer classes like Ceramics 3-4 & 5. I still do youth motivation ( going on 25+ years) in the city of Chicago - and I think many kids are being gypped by the system the way it's set up today. Yes, parents not giving a rats behind are a major issue as well - but the construct of the public schools is usually too large, and way to many bureaucrats and politics involved.
Originally Posted By Socrates I've begun to think that the problem with public education is the public. We as a nation do not have a commitment to good education, although some of us do. If we did, we'd have better schools. Most school districts are run by a locally elected school board. Who is running these problem schools? Socrates "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
Originally Posted By fkurucz "no parish affiliated for me in the high school- we and alumni foot the whole bill" Out here the Parrochial HSs tend to be independent as well, and are VERY expensive, which is why our kids ended up going to the local public HS.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "Super makes $450K and large 'staff'" That is obscene, but then again you are in the metro Chicago area. You guys have lots of issues to clean up. Our local Super is paid in the low 100's. According to Salary.com the nationwide average is $140,399, which seems reasonable given the responsibility involved.
