Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<There are other things in life to do. Go on a cruise to Alaska. That's really great fun. >> Absolutely. Alaska is one of my fave places on earth. Just an amazingly beautiful largely (until the next oil spill) unspoiled place. And soon you'll be able to take a Disney Cruise there and then add an Adventures By Disney land package (really!)
Originally Posted By dshyates "it's going to creep more and more into the consciousness of the public that the place is a rip off and offers little more than what you can get many other places. " That has been my biggest gripe is brand degradation. And I believe DCA is a shining example of lack luster attractions, lack luster atmosphere, and a real feeling they didn't even care.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Even though I enjoy DCA (more in '01 when it was more cohesive than now)... that statement is very true. DCA was conceived of, built and operated with disdain for the guest. The idea that they could slap down a mediocre third gate and pass it off as a great second gate next to the park that started it all. The fact you can walk through it and see all the areas where the details, the quality were budgeteered out, is only topped at the DSP. DCA has some great areas. But as a whole, it doesn't work. It could have. It may yet. But it doesn't now.
Originally Posted By kennect Honest question here...DDE or not...How does someone like WDW please everyone's palate and still make a profit...I am not talking about any price gouging...I am simply asking about how do they come up with menu's that can please everyone and still allow them to make a profit....Apparently the whole thing is flawed at this moment but none of it sounds suprising to me...To me it sounds as if the WDW resort is so out of control they need a major shakedown to try to get it back to what it was...But it also seems to me it is too late for such....I still love the place but I don't visit as often as I use to...There is no need really for me...If I miss a year it seems, these days, I am not missing much....
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<"has only 6 items on the menu?" Most higher end dining places have very few items on the menu.>>> Then WDW Sit downs should have at least 7, if they want to do it better. <<<I don't like seeing someone becoming disillusioned like this. It's sad. >>> It's not the money, it's not the price, it's the quality. More and more and more guests are feeling like cattle...or better yet, cows that just show up to get milked. There is very little "special" or "better" or "unique" about WDW Dining. My gripe at this point is ONLY with WDW Dining, but I did notice that there were 10 times the people in the park for Mickey's Not So Scary this year than say 3 years ago. Why? Becuase someone realized that they could sell more tickets at a higher rate and herd guests through the Tick-or-Treat stations like cattle...I mean cows. <<<Seriously, if you are on a budget, these sit down buffets and character meals are not for you. >>> It's not the price. It's the quality of choice, the ability for the restaurants to be special, differnt, in short to get what you pay for. I take 6 kids, we eat character breakfast every morning for a week, we hit a snack for lunch in the parks, and we Sit Down in a WDW Restaurant every single night, remember that's 6 kids per meal and 2 adults, and only one of the kids is under 2. FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 7 YEARS of going twice per year, we left WDW and ate off property, in fact we went over to IOA and ate dinner one night. Then guess what? The kids wanted to go to IOA the next day! They didn't even know Universal was in Orlando. So guess what we did? We went to IOA and US the next day and spent money there. I would rather eat at Burger King than feel the way I felt when we went to Cinderella's Royal Table. <<<I don't think this part of your post has much to do with the rest. I don't see how this is part of Disney trying to extract the most money out of people, as the gratuity goes to the servers, not the company. If anything, a higher gratuity means a bit LESS money for the company, as they have to eat the discount rate on the gratuity for anyone using a credit card >>> You are right, as I stated, it's not the money. In this issue it's about being treated like a criminal. Criminal you say? Yeah there is no trust. I ALWEAYS tip well over 18%. I take it as an insult that on all Dining Experience transactions, 18% is automatically added. What? They think the guests won't tip properly? I am offended. <<<You are a DVC owner. As others have said here on the boards, if you all got together, you would have one very powerful voice.>>> Interesting and true, but I would think that that counts against me as WDW Dining knows that I am going to come to WDW at least twice a year, sometimes more. Afterall, "fish gotta swim, birds gotta eat" and I have to feed my kids while we are in the parks. I just hate that we will be taking more snack food of our own into the parks now. And we will be leaving before dinner to hit some other places in town....of which I have discoverd there are MANY. <<<Things have become all about money, and I think I could live with it, if Disney still held itself to the standards it once did.>>> THIS IS THE EXACT THING I WAS TRYING TO SAY. Thanks for summing it up perfectly Spirit. <<<we remember when they were interested in earning the money by providing high quality family entertainment. Now it high dollar mass produced product. >>> Just like....wait for it.....drum roll.....Walmart! Okay let's not get too carried away, but it is certainly headed in that direction. <<<it finally starts to hit home when it finally dawns on someone that it's truly falling apart. >>> Yep this is where I am at now as a WDW guest. <<<There are other things in life to do. Go on a cruise to Alaska. That's really great fun.>>> Yeah, the two of us and our 6 young children, and don't forget #7 is on the way... would be fantastically entertained on a boat in A'frikkin'laska. You betcha! *rolls eyes* We are considering going to Disneyland Paris next year. I enjoy DCA (more in '01 when it was more cohesive than now>>> Maybe this is why I sometimes don't get all the complaints about DCA. We went in 2001 just after opening. We liked it...I mean you have to understand we were lumping it with DL, and comparing that as one park to Knotts and Universal Hollywood. We had an absolute BLAST at Legoland!!! And we enjoyed Seaworld as well. <<<How does someone like WDW please everyone's palate and still make a profit.>>> I don't know the short answer buy they were doing it well through the mid 90's in my humble opinion. In my mind, those were the real great years of WDW Dining. I wouldn't know before that because I was a broke college student and as a child I only went to WDW one time in 1974 for one day, and remember very little about it. But in the mid 90's We loved WDW. But over time it has gone way way way downhill in the sense of what you pay - for what you get - and what is offered. The convenience meals are even worse in that you have less choice than the sit downs. BOTTOM LINE: EXECUTIVES FOR CHANGE, THIS IS THE STATEMENT YOU WANT TO PRINT: I think the "Once in a Lifetime" guest is what WDW is marketing to, but someone needs to rethink this. Yes there are plenty of One Time'ers coming, but there are far far far more Repeat Guests now and the repeat guests have time to stop, look around, remember, and compare things as they change. Think about it. The repeat guest is a whole different animal and WDW is creating THOUSANDS of them with the Disney Vacation Club. Soon, people are going to realize, "The old gray mare, She ain't what she used to be..." and like me, one of the most devoted and loyal guests of all time, eventually you can't look past some things. So what do you do? You begin to look around at other things. And than what? You begin to realize that there really is a choice in town. And then what? You give other things a chance. And then what? I really don't know, I guess ultimately you spend less money at WDW and more money elsewhere. Turn back, before it's too late. The DVC'ers and the other repeat guests are catching on. I am responsible for at least 50 people coming to WDW over the past 7 years, people that would NOT have come to WDW. I have brought two of them (grandparents) four times each. Even my father in law noticed the menus last Spring. A friend at my daughters school, they go to WDW once a year, he asked me about the Not So Scary, and I told him, "man don't go, it's a mad house, it's not like the year you and I went together anymore." To which he replied, "Yeah nothing down there is like it used to be anymore." Suit yourself. It boils down to Money or Magic. You really can have both.
Originally Posted By Brian Noble This is really simple. Disney's job has always been to separate you from as much of your money as possible. Your job is to get the best possible value for the dollars you give them. This is necessarily an adversarial relationship. During peak attendance periods, the restaurants are simply filled to the gills. Disney would be idiotic NOT to raise prices during that time---restaurant capacity is fixed, and if demand outstrips supply, the only rational reaction is to raise prices to try to better match demand to capacity. You could argue that another rational reaction might be to build more restaurants, but then you'd have to get returns out of them during slow periods too. That may be possible at WDW given the current dining situation, I don't know. In any event, if you find this new value proposition unacceptable, do not go then. That's precisely the point. There is more demand for the parks during these peak times than there is capacity. Fewer guests would actually make everyone happy. Those who find the prices too high for the product will be happier not paying them. Those that do not find the prices too high will find everything just a bit less crowded. It might even be possible to get an ADR within 150 days of your trip, though that's going out on a limb. This is nothing different than the resorts charging different prices at different times. Not doing so simply ignores the fact that there are fluctuations in demand. In fact, I'm wondering how much longer admission will be the same price no matter the season. The Seasonal Pass program already acknowledges the fluctuations in demand. Anaheim's ticketing program does as well---for example the extra discounts on multi-day admission usually offered in the slower Spring season. How much longer will it be before Florida follows suit? As an aside, nice use of the word "apologist" in the original post, so as to paint anyone who disagrees with you as someone who also thinks that decreases in cleanliness, service, etc. are okay. Personally, I find those completely unacceptable, at the same time as finding differential pricing based on demand completely acceptable, and in fact expected.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Nice damage control Brian. Your lesson on supply and demand is well placed and appreciated. Again, I don't mind paying a premium price if and only if I am getting a premium of some sort in return. I guess I need to forget about what dining used to be like, and just accept that my peremium is simply being able to visit WDW. I suppose that I'm lucky that I even get to go to WDW at all, that just the visit through the gate is premium enough. I am all for price increase to match demand, but I am also for maintaining a high quality product. My gripe really has NOTHING to do with price at all. My beef is with quality.
Originally Posted By Brian Noble And that's a good beef to have, and another discussion entirely. Personally, I rarely eat at a WDW sit-down restaurant unless it is a unique "experience". A character meal, or something like California Grill or Coral Reef---those are things I can't really do anywhere else. But, I'm not there for the food or, increasingly, the service. Frankly, there are better, cheaper restaurants here in my little neck of the woods. If I want a nice meal with gracious service, it's easier to get it here at reasonable cost than to fly to Florida and hope.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<If I want a nice meal with gracious service, it's easier to get it here at reasonable cost than to fly to Florida and hope.>>> Well said Brian, you know, maybe my WDW Dining expectations are too high. Not being sarcastic, I'm serious. Food for thought...no punnn intended.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Good!! I hope they price the DDP right out of existence. And you think this is a BAD thing?
Originally Posted By MinnieSummer I also found the line in the DDE e-mail about the tip being included so as to bring the DDE in line with other dining plans currently offered at WDW a little weird as I had just read on a thread somewhere that the tip was no longer included in the DDP. Oh well. These little changes that have been made to WDW pricing structure in conjunction to the lack of value received have resulted in my family scaling back on the number of yearly trips we take. We used to go every month. Then it went down to maybe 8-10 times per year. In 2007 we only went 4 times (not including this Christmas). I've been seriously dissappointed in the upkeep of the resorts, lack of availability at various restaurants due to the DDP and our spur of the moment trips, food quality, and in many cases the knowledge level of CMs. I however have not sat silently but have written several e-mails to Guest Relations. (I also write to let them know when they do something good). Sometimes I even get a response.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Yeah, the two of us and our 6 young children, and don't forget #7 is on the way... would be fantastically entertained on a boat in A'frikkin'laska." Actually yes, you would. It would be a marvelous experience. You should look into other things to do besides disney.
Originally Posted By dshyates "These little changes that have been made to WDW pricing structure in conjunction to the lack of value received have resulted in my family scaling back on the number of yearly trips we take. We used to go every month. Then it went down to maybe 8-10 times per year. In 2007 we only went 4 times" This is really the only part Disney hears. But with the number of people who are filling the place up, I don't believe they care. Right now Disney is wooing the Brits and don't care what the Americans think. The American market is having a tough time and has little to give Disney. And Disney fostering a perception it is a bad value on its own turf I believe to be a bad idea. The dollar will correct and Disney will turn back to the american market and were going to say "We're not home right now please leave a message, we will return from Universal Orlando on the 12th".
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Seriously? Hummm.... really really? Hummm....... I'm not above looking into something, even if I first thought it would never fit with in with our way of doing things. Truth be known and told, my sister in law is a full time travel agent. Wow she used to make a LOT more money than she does these days...anyway... she has been on my a lot over the last year or so that families really do have fun on cruises. I dunno... maybe the Disney 4 day would be a good starting point. It's very difficult to fly with our kids, (2 adults getting 6 kids, 3 car seats, and a double stroller through security, and gate checked) but we do it when necessary. Maybe I really DO have the cruise industry figured wrong. I'll look into it.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad LOL @ post #34 ! I think you are correct for the most part. However, there sure are a lot of DVC rooms going up. I don't see many Brits buying those, but I may be wrong. I have no way of knowing WHO is buying those. There is a good chance that you are EXACTLY right and hardly anyone is buying those right now. It IS a tough economy right now, especially in the hospitality market. Speaking of which, is Contempo DVC really what is being built over there in WDW? It sure looks like it from the monorail.
Originally Posted By dshyates I grew up with Disney teaching me how to vacation. Since they are no longer interested in doing what they taught me to appreciate, I have sought out other similar experiences. First you need to find the coolest hotels, near the coolest attractions. For inspiration I look towards what Disney is imitating. If you like the Poly and have a family try here: <a href="http://www.cheeca.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cheeca.com/</a> If you like the Poly and its just 2 of you then this is the shizzle: <a href="http://www.littlepalmisland.com/littlepalmisland_home.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.littlepalmisland.co m/littlepalmisland_home.aspx</a> Or if it has to be an amusement park centered vacation try Royal Pacific and Do Uni. If you like the WL then go to Yellowstone or Yosemite. Or if it has to be an amusement park centered vacation try a Great Wolf Lodge (very WL with an indoor waterpark)/BGE (a fine theme park)/Coloniel Williamsburg (not quite as authentic as Liberty Square) trip. Disney isn't the only game in town.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<I also write to let them know when they do something good >>> Okay okokokok For karma's sake: A few GREAT things I did notice when at WDW two weeks ago: 1.) The parks, all 4, were VERY VERY clean. Far beyond what I have seen the past two years or so. Free of floating trash, stroller parking was staffed and doing well, no chewed gum stuck on the walkways, very clean. 2.) The bathrooms, particularly the men's rooms were VERY clean. There seemed to be a CM assigned to the high volume one's during peak hours. I was very impressed. Men you know what I am talking about...when you go into a stall and the seat is actually up and fresh and clean, as opposed to being down and .... well you know. 3.) The CM's were nice and kind. No complaints there whatsoever. 4.) The service in the Dining locations was fantastic. No complaints in fact, the lady that served us at the Hollywood and Vine Breakfast was exemplary and so was the server we had at the Sci-Fi Dine In! Over and above in all aspects. 5.) I was glad to see Spaceship Earth (my favorite ride due to nostalgic reasons) was closed for refurb. That has been a long time coming I would think. We skipped the sponsor thing at the end, it was open, but we will catch that next time when the attaction is reopened. 6.) The CM's gave HUGE amounts of candy out during Not So Scary. We probably had 5 lbs. of candy between our 6 kids. They also gave out raisins which I ate a lot of during our trip. Talk about keeping ya regular...you youngsters don't worry about such things yet. 7.) The rides and attactions were all in good visual repair, fresh paint and the like all around. Nothing really lacking terribly that I saw. Also, I would like to say that the Front Desk at the Grand Floridian was exemplary in every way. We were given our special requests, which were not that extreme. They were, rooms away from the traffic and pool, refrigerator, pack-n-play, and ground floor. That's not a lot, we aren't usually very needy nor high maintenance.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad We only spent 2 nights at the GF and the rest of the week at Old Key West. I never really intereacted with anyone at OKW other than the server at Olivia's which I might add was great. She was "earning her ears" and all that. The food at Olivia's was really good. The food at 1900 Park Fair for Mary Pollins and Pooh breakfast was okay but a downgrade in choices that they used to have. Is it my imagination or has the coffee gone from fantastic to horrible? The Nescafe in the parks was still good, but not at 1900, not sure why. The Grand Floridian Cafe was ok, but again a very limited selection of choices. The Angus Beef Burger wasn't very good but I traded that to my son for his pasta dish becuase he didn't like it. The pasta dish was not bad. IMHO the Gasparilla Grill upstaged the GF Cafe. But then it's hard to mess up pizza and hot dogs. They were really good though even as Pizza and Hot Dogs go. Oh and I would like to say something about WDW Pizza Delivery. You can now get Pizza Delivery at any WDW resort Hotel from WDW Pizza Delivery. It's horrible and over priced. Next time I'll call Pizza Hut, Papa Johns, Dominoes, whatever there is...it can't be worse than that! OMG really, it was bad. Two of my kids wouldn't even EAT it. So there is a lot of good, but once again, my big complaints still seem to center around F O O D. These problems are very easily solved, especially the pizza thing. I can't understand why "they" whoever they is, won't "fix" it...whatever that means.
