Originally Posted By dshyates Umm, thanks for the input Josh. That really clears things up. The End Days are upon us. Got it. Now back to reality.
Originally Posted By piperlynne and Dabob, I was thinking similar things. That that passage could be directly referencing those that believe they know what God wants and try to "deny the power of God" by judging others. I don't know about you. But the Christian god that I grew up with was the one that judged and didn't take to kindly to us judging others in his stead.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 That's kind of cold. Josh has the right to believe anything he likes. (Also, the passage is from the NT - Timothy I think - and not the Book of Mormon.) It's when one thinks that one's faith, whatever it is, can and should be used to deny others basic equality under civil law in the US that we run into a problem.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Well, I usually feel Josh has every right to present his religious point of view, and still do. However, as a guy who keeps getting older I sure as heck would like to know what God has against the incontinent. Who knows? Through no fault of my own I may be there some day. :-( <<Oh, lovely. We get to hear from the Cult of the Magic Underwear.>> I can't help myself... ROTFLMAO
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Well, I usually feel Josh has every right to present his religious point of view, and still do. >>> Absolutely. The problem comes when a particular religious point of view is used as the basis to enact something into law in an attempt to force it upon everyone else, including those with a different religious point of view.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF I just have a strong reaction to people who spout bible verses. I had enough of that excrement shoved down my throat as a kid.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt @ Josh: So people weren't like that when those words were written however many eons ago? Are you suggesting that these character attributes are a relatively recent consequence of mankind's downward spiral indicating that the world will soon end? Really?
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Once all 50 states pass marriage equality laws, God will finally be killed and we will become free from his tyranny.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF That, or they think they'll be forced to be slaves in some huge S&M orgy. Eew, that makes me shudder.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."<< While it's easy to make fun of Josh for quoting scripture, it's an important sign of what we can expect from anti-gay extremists. They'll retreat even farther into their own warped belief systems. They'll surround themselves even more with extreme religious language and they'll only deal with people like themselves. They'll live in a bubble where they hear constantly about "the gay agenda" and how this is all part of the last days and Satan's plan to take over the earth before the return of Jesus. Because religious language and teachings rarely allow for compromise or shades of gray, it sets our country up for some difficult times. In their simple-minded world, there is only right and wrong and good and evil. We've seen how dangerous that is to our country after the last eight years of that thinking, but it'll continue with this. Finally, I wasn't going to post this because I do think we've talked about Mormons plenty around here, but Josh's reappearance and quote makes it apropos to my point. There's a big flap in Salt Lake right now because it turns out some Mormons went and posthumously baptized President Obama's dead mother by proxy. The practice is a common one for Mormons called baptism for the dead. But it's another perfect example of this kind of black and white thinking I'm talking about. They are incapable of stepping outside of their shoes for even a second to realize that some people might not like the practice. They think it's sensitive; they think it's sacred; they think it's a beautiful sign of God's mercy; they think it's essential, so the hell with what anyone else thinks. <a href="http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_12301237" target="_blank">http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_12301237</a>
Originally Posted By Ursula So, Iowa and Maine are now much more forward thinking than California. How sad for us. I might have to move.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt ^^Hold your horses. The courts passed the legislation, but the governor has 10 days to sign it into law and apparently he's on the fence. Also, the voter in that state could issue a referendum for a vote on the matter. Maine has not legalized gay marriage just yet.
Originally Posted By hopemax The Governor of Maine signed the bill, only about an hour after the state Senate approved it 31-8. Also, DC's council voted 12-1 (Marion Barry, yes, that one, was the no) yesterday to recognize same sex marriages performed elsewhere. The mayor says he will sign it. This one is interesting, though, because Congress gets to review it.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> They'll retreat even farther into their own warped belief systems. They'll surround themselves even more with extreme religious language and they'll only deal with people like themselves. << I hope they do - I really do. This will only serve to marginalize themselves faster. Just as fundamentalist mormons have voluntarily removed themselves from most of the larger society and culture, so too will these virulent anti-gay types realize that their beliefs will cause them to be ostracized and "outsiders" - which was originally what they wished for with gays and lesbians. God laughs.
