Originally Posted By CuriousConstance Trying to naviate the parks during any shows, parades, or fireworks, is the worst. You can literally see where you'd like to be, but can't physically get there because of the ropes, people waving lights at your and ordering you through. It's crazy. The worst was one time when it was absolute GRIDLOCK and I had a mother flippin stroller!!!! You had to fight to move an inch and no one would let me go, I thought I was going to be stuck there forever.
Originally Posted By familyguy > I miss being able to take a night time cruise on the Mark Twain < And can you imagine a night time cruise on the Mark Twain once this done with all those beautiful waterfalls on the back side? Wow!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I'm not a frequent visitor to DL, but I would be fine with getting rid of Fantasmic also. The crowding is totally insane. After experiencing it the first time I made sure that I was in a different part of the park during evening hours.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I actually found FrL/NOS during F! less insane this past December since the institution of fastpass. Still lots of people (and the parks were packed, so it wasn't a sparsely attended night), but the walkways were more clear than I remember in years, since everyone watching was in the fastpass-only areas, which they've limited to a more narrow area (I think) than they used to allow for viewing. You still have the people moving you along with their little flashlights so you don't stop in the walkways, but it didn't seem too intrusive to me, and they were broader walkways (again, I think) because the viewing area was more narrow. <What is interesting about some speculation posted today on another site is the idea that the Twain will have its limited time elements at Fowler's Harbor and the Columbia will be at Frontierland Pier (as the sign at the dock area calls it).> Speculation based on what? It would seem a no-brainer to do it the other way around, because of the difference in deck access height that you outlined.
Originally Posted By monorailblue The speculation was that Twain will offer food events (tea time or some such) and so be at Fowler's to use the small kitchen there. Also, I suppose, speculation because that is where the boat is at present, and one could reasonably assume they'd put the boats where they plan them to be long-term and get that river a-draining!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Between Fantasmic and Paint the Night, shows that can only be seen in one specific area of the park, the park feels ultra congested at night. I agree with ecdc that this in itself is "bad show." I'd love to return to the days when a fireworks show happened up in the sky. While it will always be an iconic moment to watch the fireworks in front of the castle, it used to be no problem to watch the fireworks from all around the park. That made much more sense than tens of thousands of people cramming like sardines into a relatively small area. Worse still are the campers who stake their claim to turf hours and hours ahead of time. It's selfish and rude but hundreds of people do it daily. If they can ban selfie sticks, perhaps banning curb camping could be next?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Worse still are the campers who stake their claim to turf hours and hours ahead of time.<< This is one thing I will never, ever understand. I've seen people setting up blankets to watch the fireworks and I check my watch because I'm sure it can't already be that late and...nope. It's just a crazy person staking out a space four (!!!) hours early.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "Fantasmic is a good show. The disruption to the parks to put on that show is bad enough to get rid of it" I so totally agree with this. When DL is busy, which is most days, and the nighttime shows are going, it is a miserable park to be in at night for me. Scrapping Fantasmic! permanently would be a great start to solving this problem and they have the perfect excuse right now to do so.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I've seen people setting up blankets to watch the fireworks and I check my watch because I'm sure it can't already be that late and…nope.<< When I was there in December, people went straight into the park and set up camp on Main Street, hours before the holiday parade. I'm sure some held those spots right on through Paint the Night. Fairly early in the day, it was difficult to step onto the sidewalk at all because it was already lined with people camping out.
Originally Posted By familyguy Funny story We actually benefited from some people who had camped out for paint that night and apparently left their blanket to keep their spot while ALL of the people in their party left. As my family and I were walking by about 15 minutes to start time, we saw a castmember come and confirm that the blanket was not occupied with others on the street and took it up and left the space available, so my family and I hopped in that spot. When the people came back they were pretty sad and asking what happened but the people around us assured them that a castmember cleared their stuff because no one from their party was there. lol Just leaving a blanket with no people to save a spot? C'mon man!
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <The speculation was that Twain will offer food events (tea time or some such) and so be at Fowler's to use the small kitchen there. Also, I suppose, speculation because that is where the boat is at present, and one could reasonably assume they'd put the boats where they plan them to be long-term and get that river a-draining!> Ah. The kitchen thing kind of makes sense. And having the stairs at the pier lead to the Columbia would be no different than what they do to board it now. Getting people down to the lower deck would be trickier at Fowler's, but I not hardly insurmountable.
Originally Posted By monorailblue Worse than the crowding, IMHO, is shutting down Attractions. Fantasmic! is not a huge culprit here: only one large boat was really ever operated in the evening anyway, and TSI, canoes and keel boats always were closed at dusk. So that's just one thing. But fireworks close down all of Toontown, 4 Fantasyland Attractions, and the pathetic Disneyland Monorail System. And World of Color closes almost all of Paradise Pier. 1/3 of DCA, including an E-ticket, is basically dormant for 1/3 of every operating day. I can take the crowds, but I hate, hate, hate that we're stuck with so much closing for so long. Bring back Believe . . . There's Magic In the Stars--the best fireworks show that didn't require being anywhere in particular, and let Screamin' operate during World of Color (which would be fantastic, wouldn't it?)!
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>...and they were broader walkways (again, I think) because the viewing area was more narrow.<< From what I saw last Christmas, the walkways and viewing areas were about the same size, but the whole area was just a whole lot less busy. Nobody was clogging the walkways while looking for viewing spots, and I think FPs deterred people from being in that area in the first place. Given how much empty room there is now, I have to wonder how much the show’s capacity has been impacted >>I'd love to return to the days when a fireworks show happened up in the sky.<< Me too. The current show does a better job of distributing the crowds around the park, but it still focuses on the castle and having the ‘perfect’ spot. Of course, countless years of advertising with fireworks over the castle (dating back to Tinkerbell in the original Disneyland TV show) have only pushed it further, but I think that a simpler fireworks show could go a long way to clear up some of the nighttime crowdflow issues. At least having a nighttime parade has distributed people along the entire parade route, rather than simply in the hub
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Getting people down to the lower deck would be trickier at Fowler's, but I not hardly insurmountable.<< Given that it will be in this configuration for at least a year, it seems like it would be pretty easy for them to take out part of the railing on an upper level and build a little bridge. Once it goes back to normal operations, they can restore the railing to its normal configuration >>I can take the crowds, but I hate, hate, hate that we're stuck with so much closing for so long.<< I agree that it stinks that so many things are closed for so long, especially at DCA where there aren't a ton of attractions in the first place. It seems like I have to go out of my way to make sure I get a ride on Screamin', since I rarely make my way to that area of the park during the early parts of the operating day Although large-scale entertainment is certainly a big part of the Disney park experience, I think that most guests would rate rides as the most important part; nobody travels across the country to watch a fountain. I really wonder if they're finally reaching the point where entertainment is detracting from the overall experience
Originally Posted By monorailblue It just seems so much more sensible to put the Twain at the Frontierland Pier (where it is well themed also) and the Columbia in Fowler's Harbor (where the boat need not be altered to accommodate a bridge from the walkway. So we'll see where they end up.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 >>...and they were broader walkways (again, I think) because the viewing area was more narrow.<< <From what I saw last Christmas, the walkways and viewing areas were about the same size, but the whole area was just a whole lot less busy.> It's quite possible that the viewing areas were the same size and the walking area was less crazy because the area as a whole was less crowded. But boy was the walking area less crazy! So much more pleasant than before, and if you didn't want to watch F! that evening you could actually walk from, say, Big Thunder to HM with minimal trouble, which was certainly not the way it used to be on a crowded night. And I was certainly there on crowded nights in general. <Nobody was clogging the walkways while looking for viewing spots, and I think FPs deterred people from being in that area in the first place. Given how much empty room there is now, I have to wonder how much the show’s capacity has been impacted> Probably plenty, and they're probably okay with that. I think a lot of AP'ers probably went to watch F! for the umpteenth time just "because it's there," and now that you have to have a fp to watch, they're okay with maybe not watching it every time they go. They can always watch it next time, and if they do want to watch it, they'll do so from a less crowded viewing area. So they're not put out, and DL is probably happy, because people getting their spots 2 hours early and then watching the 30 minute show aren't doing revenue-producing things for those 2 1/2 hours; now the ones who want to watch can get there later, and you have more people out and about possibly buying things... the very thing fp's in general were designed to do from Disney's revenue perspective. <Given that it will be in this configuration for at least a year, it seems like it would be pretty easy for them to take out part of the railing on an upper level and build a little bridge. Once it goes back to normal operations, they can restore the railing to its normal configuration> Yeah, that's another way they could do it. I do agree with MB, though, that "It just seems so much more sensible to put the Twain at the Frontierland Pier (where it is well themed also) and the Columbia in Fowler's Harbor (where the boat need not be altered to accommodate a bridge from the walkway." I also think that since it'll be stationary, it would be great to see them restore the Columbia's beautiful sails while it's docked.
Originally Posted By Bellella The last time I rode the Mark Twain was at night. I had already ridden it during the day, but I thought a nighttime ride would be a lovely goodbye. So my BGF and myself ran all the way from Fantasyland to the dock and just made it for the Twain's final voyage of the day. This was around 5:45 at night on a December Thursday, before we stood in line for the Fantasmic FastPass queue. It was lovely to be on the Mark Twain while it was all lit up and to be on the river at night. And it really is. But if you plan everything out right, you can have your cake and eat it too. That's one of the advantages of going in the winter. Besides, like you say, they don't show Fantasmic every night. There are plenty of opportunities to ride the Twain after sunset. And the new Fastpasses for Fantasmic have basically eliminated the need to camp out in front of the river for four+ hours before the show starts. Why shouldn't the show stay?
Originally Posted By smd4 >>>Why shouldn't the show stay?<<< Because it destroys the quiet ambiance of what once was the most evocative land in the Park.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>I also think that since it'll be stationary, it would be great to see them restore the Columbia's beautiful sails while it's docked.<< Ooooh, that would be great! As fun as Fantasmic! is, I really lament how lame it makes the Columbia look during the day. Considering all the rigging work they do for the stunt performers each night, it seems like they could raise and lower the sails daily too. That way we'd have a daytime ship that actually makes sense (just how are we supposed to be propelled down that river?) and a nighttime show with clear sightlines
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <it seems like they could raise and lower the sails daily too> I've read (but have no idea if it's true) that they took the sails out of operation years ago because if the wind is strong enough it will indeed catch the sails and get the boat moving too fast. Obviously they used to deal with that somehow in the early days, but perhaps just decided they didn't want to bother with it any more, and having the sails down made for a more predictable ride (and perhaps less training for the cm's?)
