Originally Posted By -em I havent read all the post but have read most and just wanted to add my two cents- In the past 6 months Ive gone from a decent salaried (eqv of 15-20 an hour) position to 7.25 an hour.. When I started I figured out the math that if I worked a solid 40 hour week/month I would have 50 bucks a month after bills and gas to live on (food, clothes etc) but I was able to get overtime and with atleast 1 shift extra a week managed to make do- Flash forward to this month- I re-added the math and with the increase of gas (and electric) plus having my rent go up 30 bucks I am now 70 bucks in the hole working the said 40 hour week/month(and thats before food etc). For the past 3 weeks there also has been no chance of overtime so its become very slim pickings here. I have already cut out anything of value months ago (only bills are rent, car, electric and internet) Before all this I wouldnt even think twice getting the value meal at Burger King... Now if I do go out its 2.12 for the jr whopper and small fries or the 89 cent burrito at taco bell I have been trying to jump ship to somewhere else but since everyone else and their dog is trying to do the same the pickings are very slim... I am college educated with a pretty decent resume... yet Im stuck between a rock and a hard place... I am stuck in Orlando atleast another year mainly because I cant afford to move... Am I grateful I have a job? yes because I know too many people without but I am going crazy here...
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Hey -em, all the very best of luck to you. I am keeping my fingers crossed everything works our soon for you.
Originally Posted By dshyates Thanks Dave for you good thoughts. I think my interview will go well (fingers crossed). -em, hang in there, things will get better.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>>To claim you're "hurting" because you can't maintain your standard of living is insulting to people who truly are having problems obtaining life's necessities like food, clothing and shelter. Frankly, it disgusts me. That's not hurting, that's being inconvenienced. <<< <<Nikki, you truly are ignorant>> I'm glad I wasn't the big, nasty Spirit who said that ... or started the thread ... and if you don't think the sky is falling on theme parks right now Trippy I'd ask anyone who was at DL over the holiday weekend just how the crowds were (30 minute waits for E-Tickets in mid-afternoon anyone?) ... or how the projections keep getting pushed downward at Orlando's parks ... someone who follows the industry said half-jokingingly that 'July's the new August' when it comes to crowds or lack thereof. And I'm sure you all missed AirTran's latest round of cutbacks/layoffs. But I'm sorry, I'm busy being attacked by Nikki, who has no clue what kind of 'hurting' I'm in, nor what kind of income I bring in, nor what my personal circumstances are, yet sees fit to be 'disgusted' by me. Oh well ... I just hope those judgmental 'tudes don't come out in a classroom. <<It is not about absolutes.>> For the simplest amongst us, it is. It makes things much easier that way. <<If you have dedicated your life getting your degrees, post grad professional qualifications, and then working all over giving up family and friend committments, to make your career and take care of your family, to then lose it all. Well are you going to be happy taking orders from some spotty kid, bringing home $7 an hour when you used to earn $82? I don't think so. I would emigrate.>> Well, I can only say that is a very, very sad statement. I'd rather see huge demonstrations, sit-ins, work stoppages etc .. in the streets and change here. This is MY country. Unfortuantely, most folks don't seem to care. I think that's because they think they'll get justice in some mythical afterlife. I guess my anger and frustration comes from the reality that I don't believe that hooey. <<I agree about being prudent, but let's not be hasty here. If someone is a professional, they would probably be better off being entrepreneurial or contracting than working at Home Depot. That's if they got hired. Most retail managers I know would be frightened about losing their job to someone better skilled, educated and experienced. This really is delusional.>> Delusional is the correct term. I'd love to do a candid camera type deal and send some out of work professionals I know to places like Home Depot, Burger King etc ... and watch what hilarity ensues. Minimum wage jobs in Florida (and most parts of the USA I've been to) are manned by teens, immigrants or (if you're lucky) retirees. Out of work white collar professionals don't run the fryer at McDonald's, work the register at 7-11 or ring you up at Office Depot. Last summer, I actually attempted to get a job at the local Disney outlet store. Not for the money. Not because I needed it. But because I had extra time off and wanted the discounts I'd get as a Disney CM (it would likely save me thousands of $$$'s on my Disney habit). I went there to apply and they literally looked at me like I had an extra head. And I dressed down a bit. And made sure they knew I was just looking to pick up a few shifts a week and share my love of Disney. They lied (as I later found out) and said they didn't have any openings or even an application to fill out. And the whole store is staffed by women in the 54-70 age category with 1-2 teens tosses in for summer... simply put, they knew if I were hired that I that already knew more then ever their store manager about the company and they felt threatened and jealous. That's the reality that some of us more successful people go through. Even if you want a nothing job (and that's what this was) they don't want you because they know you have brains and ambition and are worldly ... they can almost smell it on you and it isn't what companies want for $7 an hour. You'd be delusional if you believe otherwise.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <I am truly amazed at the 'tudes here ... it's like that clueless wonder Suzie Orman just dropped herself into the place< <<I thought I was the only one who thought she was a clueless windbag. ( and extremely condescending )>> Nope. I am amazed that people put up with her 'I am going to tell you how to live responsibly on $22,000 a year with four kids and I'm going to get $5 million a year to do it!' The only woman on TV that makes me sicker would be Judge Judy ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<dshyates, the very best of luck in your interview! I will be mustering all the positive thoughts I can for you!>> Absolutely! You should also try the stations down in the Miami market. I can tell you they're always going through people (which may not say much about working here but I do know they pay multiples of what you made in W. Va.)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<In my experience managers, regardless of industry, are often threatened by direct reports who are substantially more qualified than they are themselves.>> Of course they are. People are insecure, especially in the workplace, especially in the USA where workers are not valued. If I were a VP of a major company, I'd want to hire the smartest, best subordinates that I could find. I would do so because I'd feel they'd do a good job and they'd make me look good while doing so. But that is the direct opposite of how 99.9% of people in management think. They feel if they hire someone of that caliber than 'they'll have my job' ...
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Well, I can only say that is a very, very sad statement. I'd rather see huge demonstrations, sit-ins, work stoppages etc .. in the streets and change here. This is MY country. Unfortuantely, most folks don't seem to care.<<< Spirit, I used to agree. But I have seen that we control our own destiny more than anything else. Not many will look out for us, so we have to make the best of it. There would have to be a lot of protests to make a major change. I owe far more to my family than one country. Countries are convenient administrative groupings based on historical or ethnical contexts. As I identify more with being a citizen of the world than one country, I have learnt to be a migrant. So I will go where I can get the best lives for my wife and children, and still try to make the world a little better.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>Retailers here have a very difficult time filling their positions.<< <<Maybe in your neck of the woods. Out here no one is hiring.>> In SoFla there are usually retail openings to be found, but again they're not looking for anyone who aspires to accomplish anything in life, let alone one who aspires to accomplish great things!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>><<In my experience managers, regardless of industry, are often threatened by direct reports who are substantially more qualified than they are themselves.>> Of course they are. People are insecure, especially in the workplace, especially in the USA where workers are not valued. If I were a VP of a major company, I'd want to hire the smartest, best subordinates that I could find. I would do so because I'd feel they'd do a good job and they'd make me look good while doing so.<<< Agreed. I do and have hired better people than me. I am a leader first and foremost. Therefore I try to find people better than me to work for me. It produces far better results and we all benefit then. But I know it is rare.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip In the interest of full disclosure, I found that the focus groups producing the quoted information in my post #177 occurred in 2001, so they do not represent the current situation. I've attached a link showing employment data for Minnesota in May 2008 if you would like to see current information. There were no real surprises there. Goods Producing was down. Service Providing was up a fair amount. Source: <a href="http://www.deed.state.mn.us/lmi/tools/ces/seasadj.htm" target="_blank">http://www.deed.state.mn.us/lm...sadj.htm</a> I stand by my claim that anyone wanting to work could pick up a service industry job inside of a week. By the way... you know what area in Service Providing was up the most? Leisure and Hospitality!! I don't know what you guys down in Orlando are doing wrong, but here in Minnesota we still like to have our fun!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Last summer, I actually attempted to get a job at the local Disney outlet store. Not for the money. Not because I needed it. But because I had extra time off and wanted the discounts I'd get as a Disney CM (it would likely save me thousands of $$$'s on my Disney habit). I went there to apply and they literally looked at me like I had an extra head. And I dressed down a bit. And made sure they knew I was just looking to pick up a few shifts a week and share my love of Disney. They lied (as I later found out) and said they didn't have any openings or even an application to fill out.>> I have no way of knowing, but I wonder if what they read in your face was your "I'm really too good for this job" attitude. At any rate, the Disney Store is NOT a valid example. By your own statement, the employees at the Disney Store were largely 54-70 year old women. Not exactly the demographic you see working at Burger King or Wal-Mart. I don't think you would see the same problem at a Burger King. If you were looking for part-time employment, especially if you were willing to take day-time hours when kids are in school, I don't think anyone would have a problem. So they know you will jump ship when a "real job" comes along. So what? They know that a good percentage of the teens they hire will be gone within 6 months too. At least with a person like you they figure chances are better that you would actually show up for your scheduled shifts and would have some idea of how to treat customers with respect. I'm not saying it is a good thing that the economy is such that professional people might have to look for work at a Burger King. I'm not saying I would particularly enjoy it if I had to do that. But I would still rather do that than do nothing, and I don't think I would have a problem getting hired.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 No offense Trippy (seriously) but sometimes your stats aren't accurate no matter how official they are. When you said recently gas hasn't been below $1 since 1999, that's not factual. I filled up for 89 cents a gallon at Jin Kwik's Shell -- right behind TDA on Harbor -- in 11/01. And was consistently paying in the dollar range for the rest of 01 and possibly into '02.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I have no way of knowing, but I wonder if what they read in your face was your "I'm really too good for this job" attitude.>> What if the 'tude was simply WE THINK HE'S TOO GOOD FOR THIS JOB? Because that's what it was. <<At any rate, the Disney Store is NOT a valid example.>> Not the Disney Store. The local WDW Character Premiere outlet run by Parks and Resorts Merchandise. And it is very valid. I am not a retail person, but if there's one area of retail I know very well, it's Disney! <<By your own statement, the employees at the Disney Store were largely 54-70 year old women. Not exactly the demographic you see working at Burger King or Wal-Mart.>> No. Most local BKs are filled with immigrant teens and most WalMarts are filled with retirees, immigrants and (I haven't walked in one in many years but when I last did ...) folks who look like they gave up on life a long time ago. <<I'm not saying it is a good thing that the economy is such that professional people might have to look for work at a Burger King. I'm not saying I would particularly enjoy it if I had to do that. But I would still rather do that than do nothing, and I don't think I would have a problem getting hired.>> Great. Make my Whopper with cheese and no mayo, please. And no, i don't want fries with that.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<you've worked in an inner city school for 1 year? Great, admirable. But it does not make you an expert in this area. Yes, you have some case studies to contribute.>> Before working in an inner city school, I also worked at Charity hospital for seven years. I have more than a year of case studies to contribute. <<Nikki, you truly are ignorant>> And sitting on a couch refusing to do get a low-paying job when you have NO MONEY isn't? << If someone is a professional, they would probably be better off being entrepreneurial or contracting than working at Home Depot.>> Of course that's an option - I never said Home Depot was the only option.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>And sitting on a couch refusing to do get a low-paying job when you have NO MONEY isn't? <<< Of course it is, but sometimes it is better to find alternative ways. Also, there is much that needs to be reformed in the system as I have illustrated briefly earlier in this thread.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<Now I know you've lost it. Taking the kids away is not the answer (unless they are being abused). They love their parents. Their parents most likely love them.>> Anyone who CONTINUALLY gives birth to children when they live below the poverty line is just as guilty of abuse as someone who beats their children. If you can't provide for a child, why should you have one? If someone truly loves their child, they want the best for them; if you're poor and you have baby after baby after baby, you're not looking out in their best interests. <<Also, about having their tubes tied, what about liberty? Where is the line? If that is not state intervention, I do not know what is. Nikki, you honestly scare me.>> You and Spirit keep harping on how everything is the government's fault and we can't rely on personal responsibility - this is the next step in the government stepping up, is it not? If people can't be responsible for getting on welfare, surely it's the government's fault, so the government needs to offer a solution.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>But I would still rather do that than do nothing, and I don't think I would have a problem getting hired.<< I agree in principle, but I'd be careful in suggesting it's easy to find a job in just about any industry. One thing is that trying to get hired these days at entry-level jobs is VERY different than it used to be. First of all, most of it, even Burger King, is done online. (Target has terminals in store to apply (my daughter did this) and it takes about 45 minutes to get through, and it isn't shared from store to store. Meaning that if you want to work at any Target in your area, you have to apply at every Target in your area.) You don't get to talk to anyone living at most places -- don't call us, we'll call you. From the anonymity of that, or Monster.com, how does your application stand out from any of the others? In other words, while I agree in positive attitudes and all that, there is also a certain luck variable that plays into it all.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It is not just down to government either. It is a holistic social demographic approach that needs to bring in the balance between self determination, guidance and control. This has to happen at the neighbourhood level, charity and voluntary sector, civic leaders, schools, employers, government all merging with a local area agreement, with a robust business case, a target operating model, a series of key performance indicators to demonstrate step change, training, commissioning cycles, citizen governance, and a staltwart review cycle. When this is in place, it makes a huge difference.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It is a significant paradigm shift to change cycles of behaviours and aspirations. It gives people a better quality of life, and reduces tax burdens. But it takes vision, hard work, and capital investment.
