McCain Now Winning Majority of Independents

Discussion in 'World Events' started by See Post, Sep 8, 2008.

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    Originally Posted By utahjosh

    Again, I don't want to debate each of these issues in this thread. They each deserve their own thread.
     
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    Originally Posted By plpeters70

    <<If you want true energy independence, renewable sources are where we need to invest our resources.>>

    Exactly!! We will never, ever be able to drill our way to energy independence, and focusing on drilling is taking to much attention off of the solutions that will actually enable us to achieve independence from foreign energy.
     
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    Originally Posted By utahjosh

    I have logical, reasoned responses to each of the last few posts that challenged the policies I desire, but I'm not going to go into each on here in this one thread.

    The point was that there are rational differences of opinion on policies.

    Calling millions of people ignorant and stupid for their conservative policy preferences in not needed.
     
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    Originally Posted By Dabob2

    It can indeed be too easy to dismiss people who disagree with us politically as dim or uninformed, but I have to say that the "drill, baby, drill" people DO strike me as just that.

    McCain himself used to understand this, until he discovered it was an "issue" he could get some "traction" with. But he USED to understand that a). drilling more now does not equal short-term relief at the pump, not even close; b). We have tons of acres of land we've already okayed for drilling that the oil companies aren't drilling on, even though they could. They're pushing for yet MORE acres to pass from protected to drillable, not because they're planning on drilling now, but because they just want those rights for the future; c). whatever oil they find does not just stay in this country; the oil goes right on to the world market and is sold to whoever wants to buy it. China and India are just as likely to buy it as us. The oil companies reap the benefits; us, not so much.

    Yet, you see people who really seem to think that if we drill more now that they'll see the end of $4 gasoline. They are encouraged to think so by politicians who explicitly make the connection. It really is disheartening to see such pandering to a misperception, and to see people buying it.
     
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    Originally Posted By mawnck

    >>Yet, you see people who really seem to think that if we drill more now that they'll see the end of $4 gasoline. They are encouraged to think so by politicians who explicitly make the connection. It really is disheartening to see such pandering to a misperception, and to see people buying it.<<

    Precisely. This is but one of dozens of examples.

    Dabob2's description is EXACTLY what will happen if we drill baby drill, as ANY ethical economist, including Republican ones, will be delighted to tell you. Oil dug up in America is not going to just be passed around to Americans.

    But that's all just "liberal media spin." Apparently Rush Limbaugh is a better economist than, you know, economists.

    Pure unadulterated stupid.

    (Rush for Secretary of Commerce!)
     
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    Originally Posted By utahjosh

    Again with the stupid.

    It's uncalled for.
     
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    Originally Posted By utahjosh

    If you think drilling in America wouldn't help us, you're lying to yourself.

    I'm not saying it would give us $2 gas. Of course some would be sold to other markets. (Oh wow, US selling something to other markets? That's bad HOW?) Granted, I wish we'd keep more of it.

    But the benefits outweigh the negatives. We should drill.
     
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    Originally Posted By DAR

    Question for those of you against drilling, if we're going to switch to alternate sources of energy what do we use in the transition period from fossil fuels? Drilling is what we need to do while developing alternate sources. Then as those become available we start to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels. It's the only sensible solution.
     
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    Originally Posted By mawnck

    >>Again with the stupid.

    It's uncalled for.<<

    Why not?

    There is such a thing as being unbelievably stupid. At this point, most of McCain's ardent supporters have officially entered this category. You can't run away from it.

    And there's no reason we should let you at this point. Our country is at stake.
     
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    Originally Posted By utahjosh

    <Question for those of you against drilling, if we're going to switch to alternate sources of energy what do we use in the transition period from fossil fuels? Drilling is what we need to do while developing alternate sources. Then as those become available we start to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels. It's the only sensible solution.>

    DAR, I think we just might be too stupid or something.

    Yeah, right.
     
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    Originally Posted By DAR

    So Obama supporters are doe-eyed sicophants(sp) and McCain supporters are stupid. Now that we have that clear, may the best man win.
     
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    Originally Posted By mawnck

    >>Question for those of you against drilling, if we're going to switch to alternate sources of energy what do we use in the transition period from fossil fuels?<<

    OPEC is still there, and we'll still be getting the vast majority of our oil from them even if we drill baby drill in every back yard in America.

    The funniest thing about all this, is that Barack Obama has stated repeatedly that he IS open to domestic drilling, even though he knows it will do zero good. Yet you still want to argue the point as if the GOP are the ones who own this issue.
     
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    Originally Posted By DAR

    <<<< Health Care = don't want it run by government and will be too expensive >>

    News flash! Health care is already too expensive! Private industry has really worked wonders here, with 40 million Americans who are without health care.

    So, the conservative position is that health care is a luxury for only the privileged. Its OK for others to suffer if they can't afford coverage.>>>>

    I say with Health Care make it like the school system. Make it public AND private and let people decide where they want to go.
     
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    Originally Posted By plpeters70

    <<Question for those of you against drilling, if we're going to switch to alternate sources of energy what do we use in the transition period from fossil fuels?>>

    We're obviously going to continue using fossil fuels while we transition - but how does drilling off our coasts help us? It won't lower the price of gas, and there isn't enough there to make us energy independant, so why open more land for drilling? And it's already been pointed out that there is already more area available to the oil companies that they aren't using, so why give them more when they aren't even fully using what they have?? It just doesn't make any sense at all.
     
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    Originally Posted By DAR

    <<OPEC is still there>>

    You trust OPEC, really really?
     
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    Originally Posted By DAR

    RE: 54 you do realize that the technology is there to drill safely and properly if you're worried about environmental issues.
     
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    Originally Posted By plpeters70

    <<You trust OPEC, really really?>>

    We don't have any other choice. Even if we drilled every bit of land available in the US, we would still need to buy oil from foreign sources -- there just isn't enough here to supply our needs.

    So, I ask again - why bother with more drilling when it won't do us any good? Wouldn't we be far better off spending our time making solar and wind power more viable?
     
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    Originally Posted By mawnck

    >>I say with Health Care make it like the school system. Make it public AND private and let people decide where they want to go.<<

    I have some terrible news for you, DAR.

    That's EXACTLY Obama's position.

    <a href="http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/" target="_blank">http://www.barackobama.com/iss...lthcare/</a>

    The only bad news is that businesses will - gasp - be forced to provide a healthcare benefit for their employees. Instead of, y'know, letting them fend for themselves, which is the Republican plan.
     
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    Originally Posted By plpeters70

    <<you do realize that the technology is there to drill safely and properly if you're worried about environmental issues>>

    But can you guarantee we won't have another oil spill when they're transporting the oil in tankers?

    But that still doesn't answer my point - why drill if it won't actually help us? Tell me exactly how drilling in the Gulf and in ANWAR will help Americans??
     
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    Originally Posted By mawnck

    >>We don't have any other choice. Even if we drilled every bit of land available in the US, we would still need to buy oil from foreign sources -- there just isn't enough here to supply our needs.<<

    This has been said repeatedly in this topic. It just bounces off him.

    I'm sorry, but if this isn't an example of stupid, then what can we call it?

    So many of the GOP's positions are indefensible unless you completely throw all facts and all reason right out the window. It's fun to watch them continue to try, though (with the unfortunate punch line that McCain is probably going to win anyway).
     

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