Originally Posted By Christi22222 Dave, you will never get any argument from me that WDW should be the best!! I completely agree. I just think it is unlikely based on everything else we are seeing. My only real point is that I've never bought the idea that WDW was the only park being neglected. I think they all take their turns and it's just a matter of degrees and timing.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed, though in my experience, the MK has been a lesser experience on every trip I have made, whether that was 1980, 2000 or 2007. They trade on the hype. The other parks have ebbed and flowed. But it is a shame it takes this cycle approach. Disneyland didn't when it was family run. I don't remember Knotts taking the hit when it was family run, Europa Park is still family run and is pristine. I think it makes a huge difference.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^ agreed- but how many families can make a go of it in today's economy for anything near the size of the Disney Parks ?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo While Europe Park is not the size of WDW (or the whole empire), it is about the size of Disneyland Resort, Tokyo or PAris on it's own - huge park the size of 2 MKs, with three themed hotels and a golf course. although, to be fair, it has been 4 generations in the making.
Originally Posted By -em >>They simply have lowered the bar for so many years that it's almost impossible to find.<< Saturday I ran the Everest Challenge at DAK that included a post race party. I went to the only true restaurant they had open (which I totally understood for the amount of guests) Restarauntsaurus- The line to order wasn't bad (2-3 people deep) and that CM was pleasantly efficient but after that it became a dismal experience.. Where it became a 10 min wait to not so humorously watch the counter staff try to distribute meals rather unsuccessfully to the point of food piling up and then people in the back of the line getting their food before the front of the line etc.. My meal (once received) was very good but at 9.30 for a sandwich and fries it shouldn't have taken that long to serve... -em
Originally Posted By Socrates As I read through this I find myself wondering: what does this say about the future of theme parks? Socrates "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit, what's your opinion of the state of DLP? Despite being more intricately designed and having more lavish rides than both stateside parks, it is rotting away in full view of guests (worse than WDW supposedly). >> I haven't been to DLP since Fall of 2009. It certainly had areas where 'rotting away' would be an apt description ... the Pirate Ship and Treehouse were the absolute worst, but there were numerous potholed walkways ... and even parts of the castle needed work. That said, all of the above either have been addressed or are scheduled to very soon. I can tell you the difference in DLP from before the 25th Anniversary began to 2007 was day and night. It looked like DL 2005 vs. DL 2002. <<It's easy to spot bad maintenance, but I was very hard-pressed to find it at WDW. It's not what it was supposed to be back in the day, but it surpasses even 21st century standards (which aren't that high). >> IT is very easy to notice issues at WDW if you pay close attention to things and know what to look for ... everything isn't as obvious as say Buzz Lightyear general condition or the confectionary on MS, which is being worked on as I type this. But plenty of WDW is being flat-out neglected. <<Furthermore, the owner of thr Passport2Dreams blog remarked that Disneyland's show quality is trending downwards, while MK's is doing the opposite. I haven't been to Disneyland for two years so I can't vouch for the veracity of that statement, but for someone like her who just got back Disneyland a few weeks ago and visits the Orlando park on a regular basis (and who is known for telling it like it is) I believe that statement may be justified.>> I respect the blogger in question. I haven't been to DL since last summer (think it's time for a visit!) That said, DL's SQS have been worlds better than WDW for a very long time. I don't know what shape DL is in now ... but I have a very hard time believing its in the same ballpark as MK's. But could it be trending downward? Well, the Prez is a WDW lifer, so I could see him bringing some of those problems westward ... that said, George is a smart guy (to some degree). I can't imagine he's looking to repeat his first disaster in Anaheim, either.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Lol....and I hope you don't mind my jumping in here! I would never profess to be a worthy replacement for the Spirit! I'm also interested in said Spirit's response, but couldn't keep my opinion on this point to myself. >> Christi, I think you made some great points. And showed a lot of Spirit of your own I tend to think it does go in cycles largely. MK had fallen to truly an all-time low maybe 2-3 years ago, so I do think it is certainly getting better in areas. It almost reminds me of Disney hotels ... you ALWAYS want to stay at the place that has just been refurbed ... BW would be that for a deluxe, Coronado for a moderate and Pop for a value right now ... OKW for a DVC ...because those have all undergone thorough rehabs. MK is showing signs of improvement, Studios too ... but DAK and EPCOT ... well, is in need of help!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<As I read through this I find myself wondering: what does this say about the future of theme parks?>> As I read through this (or pretty much anything) I find myself wondering: what does this say about the future of humanity? But I'm a deep thinker.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 As I read through this I find myself wondering: what does this say about the future of theme parks? -------- what does this say about the future of anything thjat requires discretionary monies when people have none and our geniuses in DC and each state can't figure out why.? Cubs tickets - on line gold months before the season can be had today foor almost any game this year-- why ? People are broke... cost of everything up seems like almost monthly- salaries stagnant - bonuses gone - pensions ( except for govt workers/teachers & unions) gone -- housing market depreciated 25% in many places- even more in others not a theme park only statement
Originally Posted By Christi22222 I would agree, vbdad. But the point is that a well run company needs to realize at some point that you can't conserve your way to a healthy business. You have to pony up the dough to offer a product folks WILL spend the few dollars they have on. See: anything Apple.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 chicken and egg though -- also have to be able to attract money from people trying to make their rent and mortgage payments and standing stunned at checkouts in grovery stores looking at $200/week food bills...gasoline that has risen from $1.75 to $4.75 a gallon by me in a very very short priod of time Apple is doing very well right now - mixing products people need with some they really don't - but driving demand. But lots of companies were once there and markets changed.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 No one needs an iPad (Sorry Apple geeks). I could easily argue that people need vacations and entertainment and, yes, Disney Parks a whole lot more than many things they spend on. But if you're arguing that the country is a mess and we're writing off millions of citizens annually by failing to provide them REAL (no, $8-10 an hour, no benefits,15 -25 hours a week does not count) jobs, then I'd agree and say things are very screwed up ... and I'm sure I'd say the same thing if we were hanging out in front of City Hall at 3 a.m.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 I guess I am having a hard time accepting that Disney is willing to be the company that is old hat and the number of customers they are getting is good enough to keep them from bothering with adding value. But that does appear to be the case, as you suggest. So do they change, though, when the economy gets better?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Saturday I ran the Everest Challenge at DAK that included a post race party.<<< Well done -em. Did you enjoy it?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed, and I appreciate the points that VBDAD raised. But consider this. As a consumer who is able to scrape together to go to WDW. When you arrive, what would you rather find, a fading quality resort where you scratch your head and wonder if it was worth the sacrifice, or a place where once you get there you think "oh ya, that was fantastic and totally worth it, I am going to cut back on X to try to get there again, and tell everyone else how worth it things are". I know I am totally in the last count. I do not go to McDonald's and the like very often, I would rather save my money and go out to eat less frequently to take my family somewhere nicer. I am happy to wait and save for something better. But before the defenders come in suggesting I am burnt out etc., consider this, I live on a different continent, in contact with folks that return from a Florida holiday as they will call it (and for many WDW is a part, as they hit the Space Coast, sometimes Tampa, or Miami or the Keys as a part of their trip). Almost everyone I have spoken with that has been to WDW before, has been disappointed (even Disney Pete in his last trip report, though he still had a great time). and so many more are coming back telling me Universal was better. I think this is what speaks volumes. Or there are many on the European boards who are coming back an saying they will not bother again, they will simply go to Paris again (or some ask me for advice on California since they keep hearing great things). as a WDW fan, surely this is troubling, and instead of getting annoyed at the "elitist" posters, surely it is time to pay attention and make your voices heard when you go?
Originally Posted By Bolna <<In my experience, I know that DLP and WDW suffer from similar issues - poor management, and they swap people between the two resorts all the time.>> Well, to be fair DLP also suffers from a very difficult financial situation. I don't think that this is an excuse for bad maintenance since even if they don't have a lot of money to spend, they need to make sure that they don't lose the initial investment. And spending money on a useless Toy Story Playland or the strange annual festivities (I agree with your assessment of the latest entertainment!) instead is just so frustrating. I might be someone with a comparable recent experience of both WDW (February 2010) and DLP (March 2011). DLP obviously has some really bad points. But it isn't as if the whole park looks like the pirate ship (which I am sure has been photographed in more detail in the recent years than in its first 15 years of existence). I was really afraid before my trip that I would not enjoy it because of these issues. But then I was pleasantly surprised. Fantasyland looked wonderful (it really helps that it is soooo pretty to begin with), I thought that Frontierland looked a bit faded, but actually that did fit in with the theme very well. I think for an average visitor who isn't too observing, there would not be much difference between WDW and DLP with regard to maintenance. And with the current refurbishments, DLP might even look better in the end.
Originally Posted By Labuda "That's why the Adventurers Club should still be open. It was a part of the overall WDW package. It didn't need to make tons of money. It only needed to address a part of entertainment that is now lacking." Kungaloosh. *sigh*
