Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>^^I know that. you know that. They don't care. if they can sell merch with it, they're going to build it.<<< They can do that with ORIGINAL rides. Look at Splash. (I know, it has it's "movie" that no one ever sees, that's why I consider it to be NOT synergy) Look at Space Mountain. Look at JII and Figment. All have GREAT merch lines. I don't get it.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<They can do that with ORIGINAL rides. Look at Space Mountain.>> Space doesn't sell crap, because it doesn't have crap. As for Splash and JII, they still had the cartoon character appeal backing them. still, I doubt either would be built today.
Originally Posted By TTA <<I don't get it.>> Already built in fan bases for characters/franchises minimizes risk, and bean-counters loveeeeee to minimize risk.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I didn't know it was *this* bad at WDW. I mean, this sort of thing should be unacceptable: <a href="http://www.wedenterprises.blogspot.com/>>" target="_blank">http://www.wedenterprises.blog...>></a> have you misssed the missing yeti thread or have you read it yet? <<Why should I spend thousands of dollars to fly to Florida?>> 1.) To joing the thousands of happy folks who have given of themselves in the magical 'Take a Spirit to Dinner' project (fully tax deductable); 2.) To ride Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey at IOA; 3.) To enjoy our beaches before they are all coated in oil that BP will never pay to clean (not that it is even possible, but it would be nice if we simply took over their company and all its assets to try); and 4.) To help a state where the average person who actually has a job likely makes about $9.10 an hour. That's why!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<This is why people should stop blindly throwing money at the mouse and try something new. Go on a cruise, go to Europe, go to the beach(if the oil leaves any of them), hell if you really want to go to a theme park in Orlando take a joint Uni/Sea World/Busch trip.>> I go to Europe (regularly). I just took a cruise there (albeit a Disney Cruise) and I am an APer at Sea World/Aquatica and will be at UNI/IOA again later this year. I hardly ever stay at Disney resorts anymore because ... well, I'm just not that stupid. The only time I ever buy any Disney merchandise is at Property Control where you get items for what they really are worth. But ... the notion that you should: <<Just STOP throwing money to the mouse.>> is sadly wrong ... because Disney believes there are an unlimited amount of new victims out there ... or guests who say never visited before 1996 (they hope 2001 because even in the late 90s, quality was much higher) who are just dying to buy timeshares, dining plans, pins, plush and vinyl. So ... you actually hurt the cause by not going instead of going and then complaining (nicely, of course) when Disney doesn't live up to its own standards, PR and marketing. Disney would like nothing better than to lose a longtime guest who knows what 1970s, 80s and 90s WDW quality truly was in favor of a 2003 first-timer or 2008 first-timer. But, you can certainly cut back the spending. Sure, Disney is getting its $300-plus from me for an AP every year. But the thousands (and oh, do I mean thousands) of dollars they used to get for hotel stays, dining and merchandise? Nope. Not anymore. So, I'm talking with my wallet, yet I'm also not depriving myself of the things I still enjoy. Oh, and I steal soda like there's no tomorrow with my dozens of WDW lifetime refillable mugs! ;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<That's why you can now take a magical cruise over to the Euro beaches with the Mouse, they have you trapped. The pixie dust is free, and plentiful! >> Some of us have just done that. And if their lives weren't in total chaos they might have put together a trip observation thread too! But the pixie dust was flowing ... and about the worst thing I can say about my DCL experience -- which did EXCEED my lofty expectations -- was the steak on Night 1. Total crap that was borderline unservable. It got much better after, but since my cruise I have heard this has been the case on subsequent cruises and I can't help but think this is a DCL ploy where they put out something Sizzler wouldn't on the first night to discourage guests from ordering beef (obviously a costly item) night after night. Course I could just be a cynical Spirit ... or one that gets just how Disney operates in the 21st century. But great cruise and I'd go again ... and actually, well, I will in 2011! <<See, a Disney cruise would be fine. Going to one of the other Disneylands would be fine. But right now, if you want WDW to improve, going to WDW because it's what you always do isn't the way to go. >> See my last post as to why I disagree with this (although I will add that in 2000, I was there roughly eight trips, all of at least four days) ... while in 2010, I have been only once (for nine days, much of it off-property).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Each and every time I take my kids to Disneyworld they have a fabulous time.>> And I have said in other threads in response to you that the reason you have a great time is because of YOUR KIDS! If your kids are having a great time in your backyard pool ... or at the local park ... or beach or mall ... well, you're probably pretty damn happy too (unless they're having a good time by driving Dad crazy, but we'll leave that possibility out!) <<They don't care if Pooh is 3 minutes or 4 minutes. And, I think a lot of people in here lose sight of this.>> I dunno. I think kids don't appreciate waiting in lines for two hours ... or even 20 minutes for attractions that make them think 'is this it?' <<I don't think mom and dad are the target audience for a Mermaid attraction.>> The target for any MK attraction should be the entire family or as close as can be in 98% of all cases. Meaning you don't shoot for attractions (what happened to adventures?) that have limited appeal across mutiple demos. FWIW, I do think Mermaid will likely be enjoyed by most folks in the same way Pan is and Small World is and PhilharMagic is ... so I don't want to sound negative on the attraction. I am negative that this is ALL they are doing at a very stale, very capacity-constrained park. Leemac has already chimed in about the other attractions and dining that were cut from this. And anyone who is even counting on Phase II 'Revenge of the Pixies' is someone I'd like to sell some swampland to.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Everything I've heard about the way complaints are handled, unless it's about something that can easily be changed (ala food, CM behaviour, maybe merch), they largely go in one ear and out the other.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Slightly off topic, but does anyone know how big, if any, stake Disney has in the Swan/Dolphin? I in the first few years Disney held a 10% stake in each hotel, but now that Sheraton/Starwood is the majority owner, does Disney still have a piece of the pie?>> I am 99.99999% sure Disney has no stake whatsoever in either resort (well, they are considered one these days anyway). <<They must, as they still get EMH, no?>> They pay a fee for EMH. The DD Hilton gets EMH too. I stay there pretty regularly. I wouldn't be surprised if a few more resorts, like Waldorf and Four Seasons get the EMH as well. <<But yeah, they do still have EMH. I've stayed there my last 2 trips, and again this upcoming trip. Mattresses are 10x better than any Disney Deluxe, the location can't be beat, especially at $109/night for a balcony, quasi-DHS view. I'll take that over paying $269+ to stay next door at YC/BC anyday.>> Is $109 a special rate? I've not seen anything lower than about $129 in certain seasons (a steal) ... still not as nice as my $45 a night Dolphin week in 12/01 or my $69 a night 11-night 2004 summer trip ... oh, do I love Priceline.com!
Originally Posted By TTA <<Is $109 a special rate? I've not seen anything lower than about $129 in certain seasons (a steal) ... still not as nice as my $45 a night Dolphin week in 12/01 or my $69 a night 11-night 2004 summer trip ... oh, do I love Priceline.com!>> Silver Level SPG may have gotten a few $$$ knoced off? Although I believe that just got me the balcony/view upgrade. This was last August...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Yup I love Swan/Dolphin. Besides, you can always just sneek into the YC/BC pool...>> I am very against pool-hopping (from a soda thief, too!) ... and unless you're talking about the quiet pools, Disney is quite vigilant about keeping folks who don't belong in Stormalong Bay from tresspassing. I commend them. Nothing worse than a pool-hopper. Well, except maybe when it's a nasty, rich, hypercritical, Republican pool-hopper! (no one in particular, of course!) <<That is the one knock on the Dolphin. While they do have a large pool, it is extremely noisy (DJ and whatnot). Not my idea of a relaxing time, especially if coming back from parks to unwind. The Swan however does have a decent quiet pool, with a small bar, some food and servers. QS at the Dolphin is top notch compared to any Disney hotel IMO (the name of the WS escapes me).>> I've never experienced a loud DJ there in multiple stays. And the pool area is so huge ... with MANY jacuzzis, the beach and the long lap pool at Swan ... that one could easily move to a quieter area. I love those resorts. Two of WDW's best with their own magic (hold the pixie dust!)
Originally Posted By TTA << I've never experienced a loud DJ there in multiple stays.>> The first time I experienced this was last August, so perhaps it was/is new? Seasonal? Failed attempt? <<I love those resorts. Two of WDW's best with their own magic (hold the pixie dust!)>> Couldn't agree more. Walk to 2 parks, 50% cheaper than Poly/YC/BC etc. and, as previously stated, the mattresses
Originally Posted By TTA <<And the pool area is so huge ... with MANY jacuzzis, the beach and the long lap pool at Swan ... that one could easily move to a quieter area.>> Ah. This is the pool I was referring to I believe. Almost directly across the walkway from Dolphin?? Nice, quiet, and has drink servers.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I'm kind of surprised that some of the most innocent criticisms of Disney theme parks gets some people so riled up that they reply with essay-length manifestos about "negative people." It's insane sometimes. >> Why? There's a large portion of Disney fans who treat the Mouse as a quasi religious/political figure ... you just believe in the Mouse (and the humans who run his company) as you do that there's an afterlife and you'll get to sit on a cloud with Jesus, Walt, Abraham Lincoln, Mama Cass, Gary Coleman and Aunt Frieda discussing the meaning of hidden mickeys while Jingles (your kitty that got run over by a mail truck when you were 8) nuzzles at your leg. I've been around many of these people (some on my recent DCL cruise) and they are scary. They truly are mentally ill. They are looking for something in Disney they can't find in real life and when you discuss Disney being anything less than perfect, it's like putting down Sarah Palin (my beloved!) to a Tea Partier or saying you're not quite sure there's a God to a very religious person. BTW, Disney at its highest levels knows this phenomenon well and takes advantage. One day (when someone I know who works for the company is long retired) I may post some of a ... let's call it a 'memo' from a few years back that addresses these types of fans and how Disney can milk them for generations.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I don't see a big deal about pool hopping.<<< Nor do I. Heeeeellooooo Poly Pool on Friday!!!!!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>There's a large portion of Disney fans who treat the Mouse as a quasi religious/political figure ... you just believe in the Mouse (and the humans who run his company) as you do that there's an afterlife and you'll get to sit on a cloud with Jesus, Walt, Abraham Lincoln, Mama Cass, Gary Coleman and Aunt Frieda discussing the meaning of hidden mickeys while Jingles (your kitty that got run over by a mail truck when you were 8) nuzzles at your leg.<<< Ever since you mentioned this at lunch, I was waiting for it top appear in a LP post. >>>BTW, Disney at its highest levels knows this phenomenon well and takes advantage. One day (when someone I know who works for the company is long retired) I may post some of a ... let's call it a 'memo' from a few years back that addresses these types of fans and how Disney can milk them for generations.<<< Sounds like good reading material at the next show and tell.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<What Disney forgets is that character-driven and film-based attractions weren't the only things that made Disney theme parks successful. I would wager that the original attractions had the most impact. I wrote about original attractions using World of Color as a jumping off point: <a href="http://redskydisney.blogspot.c...als.html>>" target="_blank">http://redskydisney.blogspot.c...>></a> Interesting read. Friends that went to the premiere absolutely loved the WoC, although one did say that this was simply a more modern take on Fantasmic with much more impressive effects, but not as much heart. <<Are they afraid they won't make money with original rides or something? That's what made the parks what they are. >> Yes, they are. Do you think Disney sells more merchandise based on Nemo (with attractions at both EPCOT, DAK, DL, DCA, DSP and now TDS) or EE? Sure, they sell plenty of Everest stuff, but they can't sell it at MK (except for a pin). They certainly can't sell it at DL or DLP. Nemo can be used as franchise to sell merchandise across multiple platfor... oops, I mean theme park properties. Even a beloved attraction like Soarin, which is in both USA resorts, can't be 'sold' as much as the Toy Story gang can ... or the Princesses ... or Pirates ... or Pixies. It's not that they can't/won't/don't make money on original attractions, it's just the ROI (again across multiple business units) is tiny compared to character/franchise based props. Why do you think Iger is so happy with Marvel? He can sell Iron Man 2 and Spidey crap to his heart's content in all the Disney parks and he doesn't even have to build something like IOA's amazing Spidey ride to do it. Just toss it on shelves in the MK or DD ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I'm not sold that is true, how about they just cut back what's already here to make more money ? You're trying to reason with bean counters ? - that's a losing proposition if quality is what one seeks - they work in a work of black and white quantity/ROI>> WDW's business model since the rise of the consultants in the mid-90s is simply to cut as much 'fat'as possible to prop up the bottom line, while trying to attain build-out ASAP. All about short term. Of course, we all know 'fat' really means 'Disney quality' (anyone want to invite Thomas Smith from the Disney Parks Blog over here for a REAL discussion?) Maybe Zenia will do an interview with Doobie since she loves the fans so much she publishes D23 (she likely was hanging with fanbois down at DD in Anaheim when her PA was trying to sell insider info to FBI agents!) What were we talking 'bout? Oh yeah, beancounters. Their purpose: torture numbers into saying whatever it is that management wants them to. Maybe Disney should get into the derivitives or credit default swaps or mortgage businesses ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Me too. Both quality guys that add to a Disney forum.>> Just like you and me ...
