Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt Good I guess. Her topic was Fish so she brought in a gold fish for visual.
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt I hope y'all can get together! Spirit, you'll get along well with my bro'. I remember when we were kids he actually turned green on Thunder Mountain! Thank God he didn't barf on me!! Good times!
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt I wasn't sick, I got dizzy & fell on the floor! & my rude parents didn't even try to help me up! It was really funny!!
Originally Posted By leobloom >> what possible insidious 'message' is coming from American Adventure ? << For one thing, I think the inclusion of the loveable curmudgeon Samuel Clemens is misleading. I suspect Clemens would have something witty and cynical to say if he knew how his likeness had been co-opted by Disney. I guess I see the show as good at what it sets out to do (flag-waving rally), but I also think it's misleading to take historical figures like Franklin and put them in a show that makes no attempt to deal with historical complexities. In a setting like a theme park, dumbing down is inevitable. It's the same mentality that allows Glenn Beck to talk about the Founding Fathers like he can read their minds. Perhaps 'insidious' was the wrong word to describe the show. But at the very least it's misleading, and it's not Disney's place to teach history, which is why I'm glad the America theme park in Virginia was never built.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Perhaps 'insidious' was the wrong word to describe the show. But at the very least it's misleading, and it's not Disney's place to teach history, which is why I'm glad the America theme park in Virginia was never built.<<< Don't get me wrong...as a student of History, I agree with you on Disney teaching. But when I think of what they could have done with that VA park, and what IS done with the AmerAdv, and even the rest of WS, which is showcasing, or informing in an entertaining way, at the least, I am all for it. Like EPCOT, inform, inspire, but overall, entertain. I think that is what is done here.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> what possible insidious 'message' is coming from American Adventure ? << <<For one thing, I think the inclusion of the loveable curmudgeon Samuel Clemens is misleading. I suspect Clemens would have something witty and cynical to say if he knew how his likeness had been co-opted by Disney.>> Sure. He was a great writer and observer. BUT ... I don't see his inclusion or even his presentation as insidious or even whitewashing. They took his personality traits and had him narate a very broad (and obviously) positive view of the creation of our nation. In 30 minutes, in a theme park there's only so much one can do ... and I think the AA is one of the greatest theme park attractions ever. Because it aspires to be great, whether or not in achieves it. <<I guess I see the show as good at what it sets out to do (flag-waving rally), but I also think it's misleading to take historical figures like Franklin and put them in a show that makes no attempt to deal with historical complexities. In a setting like a theme park, dumbing down is inevitable. It's the same mentality that allows Glenn Beck to talk about the Founding Fathers like he can read their minds.>> Two totally different things, in my mind. AA isn't partisan. AA isn't ignoring the fact there have been great tragedies and injustices in our country ... just that our spirit is to try and overcome them and be the best. I am not a flag waver (except at some patriotic festivities) at all. But there's nothing wrong with a show that showcases what we the people have accomplished. Beck is a figment of our current polarized crazy post-9/11 nation. Forgetting about his hatred, which is pretty front and center, the ignorance of the man is pretty amazing ... so the fact that many of our Founding Fathers were athiests suddenly becomes we're a nation built in a strong belief in God. I don't want to get into politics. Would rather talk poo. But AA isn't in the same universe as Beck or his ilk. <<Perhaps 'insidious' was the wrong word to describe the show. But at the very least it's misleading, and it's not Disney's place to teach history, which is why I'm glad the America theme park in Virginia was never built.>> Disney has always thrown some education into its parks/attractions and EPCOT had that as a cornerstone ... it's only in the Decade of Decline that the education aspect has largely been Walmarted. I would have liked to see Disney's America built, although I wonder how much it would have had to be dumbed down because there would have been a much greater expectation of all the warts this country has had over the years.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Great post, Spirit. Basically sums up my feelings in a much more eloquent way than I could have put them.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I guess I see the show as good at what it sets out to do (flag-waving rally), but I also think it's misleading to take historical figures like Franklin and put them in a show that makes no attempt to deal with historical complexities. In a setting like a theme park, dumbing down is inevitable. It's the same mentality that allows Glenn Beck to talk about the Founding Fathers like he can read their minds. ------- if the show was 72 hours long - maybe they could deal with complexities of everything from Deism to Masonic influences... but in a theme park setting I feel they do fine with a montage of quick hits that stirs patriotism and is intended to do nomore than that. It would be like criticizing the voices of reedom because each show they don't cover the hardships of every single group that settled America I don't see any Beckish like interpretations, it's all pretty light.. there are no final exams at the door on the way out.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>. so the fact that many of our Founding Fathers were athiests suddenly becomes we're a nation built in a strong belief in God.<<< Deists, actually. Like me! :-D Products of the Enlightenment and the age of reason.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Perhaps 'insidious' was the wrong word to describe the show. But at the very least it's misleading, and it's not Disney's place to teach history ------------- ----nor do I think they are really trying to..It's rally round the flag boys type imagery for the most part- and quick hits that hopefully will inspire kids to put down the ipod and maybe look up some of the incidents covered and read about them... not sure how that can be bad.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 >>>. so the fact that many of our Founding Fathers were athiests suddenly becomes we're a nation built in a strong belief in God.<<< Deists, actually much more accurate statement
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Deists, actually. Like me! :-D Products of the Enlightenment and the age of reason. >> True. I can't keep up with you young whippersnappers (is that right?) in postage. And I hate premature postage. But ... my point was if you listen to the faaaar right talking heads you'd believe the country was founded to be a Christian nation and not one with a serious seperation of church and state and NO state religion.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>But ... my point was if you listen to the faaaar right talking heads you'd believe the country was founded to be a Christian nation and not one with a serious seperation of church and state and NO state religion.<<< Oh, I know. Nothing more ticks me off than those ignorant of basic history.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 But ... my point was if you listen to the faaaar right talking heads you'd believe the country was founded to be a Christian nation and not one with a serious seperation of church and state and NO state religion. ----- but also not one with NO religious beliefs as the faaar left would have you believe-- just the fact that separation was the intent from day 1 - yes. Having done a lot of reading on Knights Templar and more modern day the Masons and their influence in the early formation of our country... they had far more influence than any one sect...they were relisious believing in an all pwerful entity, just not choosing to annoint one over another ( readers digest version that Leo will likely go nuts on ;-) )
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>but also not one with NO religious beliefs as the faaar left would have you believe-- just the fact that separation was the intent from day 1 - yes.<<<< Exactly. The whole point of Deism is to address that there is a God/Force/Architect/Spirit ( not ours... Hah), but the belief in it isn't one in religion, per say, but a belief in that is the force behind all action and reaction in the universe. It's...rational.
